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Discrete function is also a math function?


Teaching “math function” vs. “CS function”How do I teach “math equality” vs. “CS assignment” vs. “CS equality logic operator”?Teaching “CS integer” vs. “math integer”













1












$begingroup$


Here is a table of the Staten Island subway:



| STOP | STATION |
|------+-----------------|
| 1 | St. George |
| 2 | Tomkinsville |
| 3 | Stapleton |
| 4 | Clifton |
| 5 | Grasmere |
| 6 | Old Town |
| 7 | Dongan Hills |
| 8 | Jefferson |
| 9 | Grant |
| 10 | New Dorp |
| 11 | Oakwood Heights |
| 12 | Bay Terrace |
| 13 | Great Kills |
| 14 | Eltingville |
| 15 | Annadale |
| 16 | Hugenot |
| 17 | Prince’s Bay |
| 18 | Pleasant Plains |
| 19 | Richmond Valley |
| 20 | Arthur Kill |
| 21 | Tottenville |


and here is an Elisp function that maps a number to a name:



(defun sisubstops (s)
(pcase s
((pred (or (< s 1) (> s 21))) (message "Hey, just stops 1 through 21, please!"))
('1 (message "St. George"))
('2 (message "" Tomkinsville))
('3 (message "Stapleton"))
('4 (message " Clifton"))
('5 (message " Grasmere"))
('6 (message " Old Town"))
('7 (message " Dongan Hills"))
('8 (message " Jefferson"))
('9 (message " Grant"))
('10 (message " New Dorp"))
('11 (message " Oakwood Heights"))
('12 (message " Bay Terrace"))
('13 (message " Great Kills"))
('14 (message " Eltingville"))
('15 (message " Annadale"))
('16 (message " Hugenot"))
('17 (message " Prince’s Bay"))
('18 (message " Pleasant Plains"))
('19 (message " Richmond Valley"))
('20 (message " Arthur Kill"))
('21 (message " Tottenville"))))


So, when I'm trying to tell students that this is a function of a basically non-continuous phenomenon, i.e., we're not dealing with a function like f(x) = x^2, rather a function that matches stops to names -- but it is still a function -- how can I get this across. One idea would be to got deep into Lambda Calculus and talk about how LC does conditionals. My first goal is to distinguish between continuous versus discrete; and yet I've written a Lisp function that can't really be represented as any sort of normal math function e.g., S(n) = M*nwhere M is some sort of machine or constant that takes a stop number and turns it into a stop name. Any ideas how, yes, this is a function? Or is this just a misnomer, i.e., comp-sci using/abusing the term function. So yes, how is sisubstops really a function?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$



migrated from softwareengineering.stackexchange.com 2 hours ago


This question came from our site for professionals, academics, and students working within the systems development life cycle.













  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Huh, functions are routinely explained via tables, or via set theory where elements of the domain are mapped to elements in the codomain. Without the set theory explanation (which didactically works best with finite sets), it's unnecessarily hard to express properties such as “injectivity” or “surjectivity”.
    $endgroup$
    – amon
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    This seems like more of a CompSci question than Software Engineering. A better site for this question might be cs.stackexchange.com instead
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Cottrell
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    In modern maths, functions are pretty much literally nothing but a mapping from arguments to results. Which means, for example, that arrays, maps, and sets are also functions.
    $endgroup$
    – Jörg W Mittag
    5 hours ago















1












$begingroup$


Here is a table of the Staten Island subway:



| STOP | STATION |
|------+-----------------|
| 1 | St. George |
| 2 | Tomkinsville |
| 3 | Stapleton |
| 4 | Clifton |
| 5 | Grasmere |
| 6 | Old Town |
| 7 | Dongan Hills |
| 8 | Jefferson |
| 9 | Grant |
| 10 | New Dorp |
| 11 | Oakwood Heights |
| 12 | Bay Terrace |
| 13 | Great Kills |
| 14 | Eltingville |
| 15 | Annadale |
| 16 | Hugenot |
| 17 | Prince’s Bay |
| 18 | Pleasant Plains |
| 19 | Richmond Valley |
| 20 | Arthur Kill |
| 21 | Tottenville |


and here is an Elisp function that maps a number to a name:



(defun sisubstops (s)
(pcase s
((pred (or (< s 1) (> s 21))) (message "Hey, just stops 1 through 21, please!"))
('1 (message "St. George"))
('2 (message "" Tomkinsville))
('3 (message "Stapleton"))
('4 (message " Clifton"))
('5 (message " Grasmere"))
('6 (message " Old Town"))
('7 (message " Dongan Hills"))
('8 (message " Jefferson"))
('9 (message " Grant"))
('10 (message " New Dorp"))
('11 (message " Oakwood Heights"))
('12 (message " Bay Terrace"))
('13 (message " Great Kills"))
('14 (message " Eltingville"))
('15 (message " Annadale"))
('16 (message " Hugenot"))
('17 (message " Prince’s Bay"))
('18 (message " Pleasant Plains"))
('19 (message " Richmond Valley"))
('20 (message " Arthur Kill"))
('21 (message " Tottenville"))))


So, when I'm trying to tell students that this is a function of a basically non-continuous phenomenon, i.e., we're not dealing with a function like f(x) = x^2, rather a function that matches stops to names -- but it is still a function -- how can I get this across. One idea would be to got deep into Lambda Calculus and talk about how LC does conditionals. My first goal is to distinguish between continuous versus discrete; and yet I've written a Lisp function that can't really be represented as any sort of normal math function e.g., S(n) = M*nwhere M is some sort of machine or constant that takes a stop number and turns it into a stop name. Any ideas how, yes, this is a function? Or is this just a misnomer, i.e., comp-sci using/abusing the term function. So yes, how is sisubstops really a function?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$



migrated from softwareengineering.stackexchange.com 2 hours ago


This question came from our site for professionals, academics, and students working within the systems development life cycle.













  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Huh, functions are routinely explained via tables, or via set theory where elements of the domain are mapped to elements in the codomain. Without the set theory explanation (which didactically works best with finite sets), it's unnecessarily hard to express properties such as “injectivity” or “surjectivity”.
    $endgroup$
    – amon
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    This seems like more of a CompSci question than Software Engineering. A better site for this question might be cs.stackexchange.com instead
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Cottrell
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    In modern maths, functions are pretty much literally nothing but a mapping from arguments to results. Which means, for example, that arrays, maps, and sets are also functions.
    $endgroup$
    – Jörg W Mittag
    5 hours ago













1












1








1





$begingroup$


Here is a table of the Staten Island subway:



| STOP | STATION |
|------+-----------------|
| 1 | St. George |
| 2 | Tomkinsville |
| 3 | Stapleton |
| 4 | Clifton |
| 5 | Grasmere |
| 6 | Old Town |
| 7 | Dongan Hills |
| 8 | Jefferson |
| 9 | Grant |
| 10 | New Dorp |
| 11 | Oakwood Heights |
| 12 | Bay Terrace |
| 13 | Great Kills |
| 14 | Eltingville |
| 15 | Annadale |
| 16 | Hugenot |
| 17 | Prince’s Bay |
| 18 | Pleasant Plains |
| 19 | Richmond Valley |
| 20 | Arthur Kill |
| 21 | Tottenville |


and here is an Elisp function that maps a number to a name:



(defun sisubstops (s)
(pcase s
((pred (or (< s 1) (> s 21))) (message "Hey, just stops 1 through 21, please!"))
('1 (message "St. George"))
('2 (message "" Tomkinsville))
('3 (message "Stapleton"))
('4 (message " Clifton"))
('5 (message " Grasmere"))
('6 (message " Old Town"))
('7 (message " Dongan Hills"))
('8 (message " Jefferson"))
('9 (message " Grant"))
('10 (message " New Dorp"))
('11 (message " Oakwood Heights"))
('12 (message " Bay Terrace"))
('13 (message " Great Kills"))
('14 (message " Eltingville"))
('15 (message " Annadale"))
('16 (message " Hugenot"))
('17 (message " Prince’s Bay"))
('18 (message " Pleasant Plains"))
('19 (message " Richmond Valley"))
('20 (message " Arthur Kill"))
('21 (message " Tottenville"))))


So, when I'm trying to tell students that this is a function of a basically non-continuous phenomenon, i.e., we're not dealing with a function like f(x) = x^2, rather a function that matches stops to names -- but it is still a function -- how can I get this across. One idea would be to got deep into Lambda Calculus and talk about how LC does conditionals. My first goal is to distinguish between continuous versus discrete; and yet I've written a Lisp function that can't really be represented as any sort of normal math function e.g., S(n) = M*nwhere M is some sort of machine or constant that takes a stop number and turns it into a stop name. Any ideas how, yes, this is a function? Or is this just a misnomer, i.e., comp-sci using/abusing the term function. So yes, how is sisubstops really a function?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Here is a table of the Staten Island subway:



| STOP | STATION |
|------+-----------------|
| 1 | St. George |
| 2 | Tomkinsville |
| 3 | Stapleton |
| 4 | Clifton |
| 5 | Grasmere |
| 6 | Old Town |
| 7 | Dongan Hills |
| 8 | Jefferson |
| 9 | Grant |
| 10 | New Dorp |
| 11 | Oakwood Heights |
| 12 | Bay Terrace |
| 13 | Great Kills |
| 14 | Eltingville |
| 15 | Annadale |
| 16 | Hugenot |
| 17 | Prince’s Bay |
| 18 | Pleasant Plains |
| 19 | Richmond Valley |
| 20 | Arthur Kill |
| 21 | Tottenville |


and here is an Elisp function that maps a number to a name:



(defun sisubstops (s)
(pcase s
((pred (or (< s 1) (> s 21))) (message "Hey, just stops 1 through 21, please!"))
('1 (message "St. George"))
('2 (message "" Tomkinsville))
('3 (message "Stapleton"))
('4 (message " Clifton"))
('5 (message " Grasmere"))
('6 (message " Old Town"))
('7 (message " Dongan Hills"))
('8 (message " Jefferson"))
('9 (message " Grant"))
('10 (message " New Dorp"))
('11 (message " Oakwood Heights"))
('12 (message " Bay Terrace"))
('13 (message " Great Kills"))
('14 (message " Eltingville"))
('15 (message " Annadale"))
('16 (message " Hugenot"))
('17 (message " Prince’s Bay"))
('18 (message " Pleasant Plains"))
('19 (message " Richmond Valley"))
('20 (message " Arthur Kill"))
('21 (message " Tottenville"))))


So, when I'm trying to tell students that this is a function of a basically non-continuous phenomenon, i.e., we're not dealing with a function like f(x) = x^2, rather a function that matches stops to names -- but it is still a function -- how can I get this across. One idea would be to got deep into Lambda Calculus and talk about how LC does conditionals. My first goal is to distinguish between continuous versus discrete; and yet I've written a Lisp function that can't really be represented as any sort of normal math function e.g., S(n) = M*nwhere M is some sort of machine or constant that takes a stop number and turns it into a stop name. Any ideas how, yes, this is a function? Or is this just a misnomer, i.e., comp-sci using/abusing the term function. So yes, how is sisubstops really a function?







functional-programming mathematics






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago









heather

3,968836




3,968836










asked 7 hours ago









147pm147pm

1062




1062




migrated from softwareengineering.stackexchange.com 2 hours ago


This question came from our site for professionals, academics, and students working within the systems development life cycle.









migrated from softwareengineering.stackexchange.com 2 hours ago


This question came from our site for professionals, academics, and students working within the systems development life cycle.









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Huh, functions are routinely explained via tables, or via set theory where elements of the domain are mapped to elements in the codomain. Without the set theory explanation (which didactically works best with finite sets), it's unnecessarily hard to express properties such as “injectivity” or “surjectivity”.
    $endgroup$
    – amon
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    This seems like more of a CompSci question than Software Engineering. A better site for this question might be cs.stackexchange.com instead
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Cottrell
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    In modern maths, functions are pretty much literally nothing but a mapping from arguments to results. Which means, for example, that arrays, maps, and sets are also functions.
    $endgroup$
    – Jörg W Mittag
    5 hours ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Huh, functions are routinely explained via tables, or via set theory where elements of the domain are mapped to elements in the codomain. Without the set theory explanation (which didactically works best with finite sets), it's unnecessarily hard to express properties such as “injectivity” or “surjectivity”.
    $endgroup$
    – amon
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    This seems like more of a CompSci question than Software Engineering. A better site for this question might be cs.stackexchange.com instead
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Cottrell
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    In modern maths, functions are pretty much literally nothing but a mapping from arguments to results. Which means, for example, that arrays, maps, and sets are also functions.
    $endgroup$
    – Jörg W Mittag
    5 hours ago







2




2




$begingroup$
Huh, functions are routinely explained via tables, or via set theory where elements of the domain are mapped to elements in the codomain. Without the set theory explanation (which didactically works best with finite sets), it's unnecessarily hard to express properties such as “injectivity” or “surjectivity”.
$endgroup$
– amon
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Huh, functions are routinely explained via tables, or via set theory where elements of the domain are mapped to elements in the codomain. Without the set theory explanation (which didactically works best with finite sets), it's unnecessarily hard to express properties such as “injectivity” or “surjectivity”.
$endgroup$
– amon
6 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
This seems like more of a CompSci question than Software Engineering. A better site for this question might be cs.stackexchange.com instead
$endgroup$
– Ben Cottrell
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
This seems like more of a CompSci question than Software Engineering. A better site for this question might be cs.stackexchange.com instead
$endgroup$
– Ben Cottrell
5 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
In modern maths, functions are pretty much literally nothing but a mapping from arguments to results. Which means, for example, that arrays, maps, and sets are also functions.
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
In modern maths, functions are pretty much literally nothing but a mapping from arguments to results. Which means, for example, that arrays, maps, and sets are also functions.
$endgroup$
– Jörg W Mittag
5 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

In math, a function is just an association between each element in a set X and a specific element in set Y. X and Y can be any well defined set: real numbers, rational numbers, integers, even integers, odd integers, all the real numbers except 0, words, names of states, names of cities, etc. Calling a table mapping between between bus stop numbers and bus stop names a function is perfectly sound mathematically as long as no single stop maps to two different names.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$

    Focus on the idea that the sets can be finite. They don't need to be defined by a formula. Any set of ordered pairs is a relation. If there is a unique second element for any given first element then it is a function.



    You don't need Lambda Calculus or any mathematics to show what a function is. Finite functions can be computed by table lookup or by hash maps.



    Actually functions defined by formulas in computing are often problematic since computations of many values (say Real Values) are only approximate.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




















      1












      $begingroup$

      Talk about step functions. This might get the point across that functions do not need to be continuous. (I think going into lambda calculus would just confuse your students here - there's no need.)



      As for whether this is really a function - sure it is! To make it clearer, here's something you can do. The written numbers we have - '7', for instance - just stand in for the concept of seven. We could really use the symbol 'a' to stand in for the concept of seven. (Just as we can use any variable name to hold the value inside - though we do tend to choose variable names that 'make sense' to us.)



      With that in mind, what keeps us from saying that 'St. George' is just another symbol? Nothing. The symbols don't matter, the relation between them does - that's what makes a function a function.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













        Your Answer








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        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

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        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        1












        $begingroup$

        In math, a function is just an association between each element in a set X and a specific element in set Y. X and Y can be any well defined set: real numbers, rational numbers, integers, even integers, odd integers, all the real numbers except 0, words, names of states, names of cities, etc. Calling a table mapping between between bus stop numbers and bus stop names a function is perfectly sound mathematically as long as no single stop maps to two different names.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$

















          1












          $begingroup$

          In math, a function is just an association between each element in a set X and a specific element in set Y. X and Y can be any well defined set: real numbers, rational numbers, integers, even integers, odd integers, all the real numbers except 0, words, names of states, names of cities, etc. Calling a table mapping between between bus stop numbers and bus stop names a function is perfectly sound mathematically as long as no single stop maps to two different names.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$















            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            In math, a function is just an association between each element in a set X and a specific element in set Y. X and Y can be any well defined set: real numbers, rational numbers, integers, even integers, odd integers, all the real numbers except 0, words, names of states, names of cities, etc. Calling a table mapping between between bus stop numbers and bus stop names a function is perfectly sound mathematically as long as no single stop maps to two different names.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            In math, a function is just an association between each element in a set X and a specific element in set Y. X and Y can be any well defined set: real numbers, rational numbers, integers, even integers, odd integers, all the real numbers except 0, words, names of states, names of cities, etc. Calling a table mapping between between bus stop numbers and bus stop names a function is perfectly sound mathematically as long as no single stop maps to two different names.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 3 hours ago







            Charles E. Grant




























                1












                $begingroup$

                Focus on the idea that the sets can be finite. They don't need to be defined by a formula. Any set of ordered pairs is a relation. If there is a unique second element for any given first element then it is a function.



                You don't need Lambda Calculus or any mathematics to show what a function is. Finite functions can be computed by table lookup or by hash maps.



                Actually functions defined by formulas in computing are often problematic since computations of many values (say Real Values) are only approximate.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$

















                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  Focus on the idea that the sets can be finite. They don't need to be defined by a formula. Any set of ordered pairs is a relation. If there is a unique second element for any given first element then it is a function.



                  You don't need Lambda Calculus or any mathematics to show what a function is. Finite functions can be computed by table lookup or by hash maps.



                  Actually functions defined by formulas in computing are often problematic since computations of many values (say Real Values) are only approximate.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$















                    1












                    1








                    1





                    $begingroup$

                    Focus on the idea that the sets can be finite. They don't need to be defined by a formula. Any set of ordered pairs is a relation. If there is a unique second element for any given first element then it is a function.



                    You don't need Lambda Calculus or any mathematics to show what a function is. Finite functions can be computed by table lookup or by hash maps.



                    Actually functions defined by formulas in computing are often problematic since computations of many values (say Real Values) are only approximate.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    Focus on the idea that the sets can be finite. They don't need to be defined by a formula. Any set of ordered pairs is a relation. If there is a unique second element for any given first element then it is a function.



                    You don't need Lambda Calculus or any mathematics to show what a function is. Finite functions can be computed by table lookup or by hash maps.



                    Actually functions defined by formulas in computing are often problematic since computations of many values (say Real Values) are only approximate.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 2 hours ago









                    BuffyBuffy

                    23.9k94185




                    23.9k94185





















                        1












                        $begingroup$

                        Talk about step functions. This might get the point across that functions do not need to be continuous. (I think going into lambda calculus would just confuse your students here - there's no need.)



                        As for whether this is really a function - sure it is! To make it clearer, here's something you can do. The written numbers we have - '7', for instance - just stand in for the concept of seven. We could really use the symbol 'a' to stand in for the concept of seven. (Just as we can use any variable name to hold the value inside - though we do tend to choose variable names that 'make sense' to us.)



                        With that in mind, what keeps us from saying that 'St. George' is just another symbol? Nothing. The symbols don't matter, the relation between them does - that's what makes a function a function.






                        share|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$

















                          1












                          $begingroup$

                          Talk about step functions. This might get the point across that functions do not need to be continuous. (I think going into lambda calculus would just confuse your students here - there's no need.)



                          As for whether this is really a function - sure it is! To make it clearer, here's something you can do. The written numbers we have - '7', for instance - just stand in for the concept of seven. We could really use the symbol 'a' to stand in for the concept of seven. (Just as we can use any variable name to hold the value inside - though we do tend to choose variable names that 'make sense' to us.)



                          With that in mind, what keeps us from saying that 'St. George' is just another symbol? Nothing. The symbols don't matter, the relation between them does - that's what makes a function a function.






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$















                            1












                            1








                            1





                            $begingroup$

                            Talk about step functions. This might get the point across that functions do not need to be continuous. (I think going into lambda calculus would just confuse your students here - there's no need.)



                            As for whether this is really a function - sure it is! To make it clearer, here's something you can do. The written numbers we have - '7', for instance - just stand in for the concept of seven. We could really use the symbol 'a' to stand in for the concept of seven. (Just as we can use any variable name to hold the value inside - though we do tend to choose variable names that 'make sense' to us.)



                            With that in mind, what keeps us from saying that 'St. George' is just another symbol? Nothing. The symbols don't matter, the relation between them does - that's what makes a function a function.






                            share|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            Talk about step functions. This might get the point across that functions do not need to be continuous. (I think going into lambda calculus would just confuse your students here - there's no need.)



                            As for whether this is really a function - sure it is! To make it clearer, here's something you can do. The written numbers we have - '7', for instance - just stand in for the concept of seven. We could really use the symbol 'a' to stand in for the concept of seven. (Just as we can use any variable name to hold the value inside - though we do tend to choose variable names that 'make sense' to us.)



                            With that in mind, what keeps us from saying that 'St. George' is just another symbol? Nothing. The symbols don't matter, the relation between them does - that's what makes a function a function.







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                            answered 1 hour ago









                            heatherheather

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