Quantum jump/leap, exist or not, and instantaneous or not (for electrons)?Does the new finding on “reversing a quantum jump mid-flight” rule out any interpretations of QM?How do electrons jump orbitals?Does an electron move from one excitation state to another, or jump?How fast does an electron jump between orbitals?Quantum jump of an electronthe type of movement in electron jump between levels?H atom's excited state lasts on average $10^-8$ secs, is there a time gap (of max 2*$10^-8$ secs) betwn. two consec. photon absorpt.-emiss. pairs?How do electrons jump orbitals?Is there any significance of atomic orbitals?Does Rydberg's formula work for different orbitals?Why can't electrons absorb any energy (i.e. absorb some energy of the photons necessary and emit the residual)?If orbital shells are just probability functions, why are quantum numbers only ever integers?H atom's excited state lasts on average $10^-8$ secs, is there a time gap (of max 2*$10^-8$ secs) betwn. two consec. photon absorpt.-emiss. pairs?Quantum numbers and radial probability of the electronsOrbitals and electron jumpingVirtual photon exchange instantaneouslyCan an electron absorb a photon even if it exceeds the energy required for the electron to jump up an energy level?

1991 (I think) Trek 850 MTB bottom bracket replacement. Maybe similar to 830?

How could an armless race establish civilization?

Making a wall made from glass bricks

"I am [the / an] owner of a bookstore"?

Why isn't UDP with reliability (implemented at Application layer) a substitute of TCP?

A* pathfinding algorithm too slow

How can I know if a PDF file was created via LaTeX or XeLaTeX?

How to stop the sales department from selling functionalities that don't exist

Does a return economy-class seat between London and San Francisco release 5.28 tonnes of CO2 equivalents?

Why would anyone even use a Portkey?

Can European countries bypass the EU and make their own individual trade deal with the U.S.?

Transactional Email API: TriggeredSend definition not enabled for this route

Is there a way to convert blue ice back into packed ice?

Active wildlife outside the window- Good or Bad for Cat psychology?

Robots in a spaceship

Is it okay to submit a paper from a master's thesis without informing the advisor?

Quantum jump/leap, exist or not, and instantaneous or not (for electrons)?

Reusable spacecraft: why still have fairings detach, instead of open/close?

Why were the first airplanes "backwards"?

What European countries have secret voting within the Legislature?

Ways to get SMD resistors from a strip

If you kill a Solar Angel can you use its Slaying Longbow?

How does mmorpg store data?

What is the Japanese name for the conventional shoelace knot?



Quantum jump/leap, exist or not, and instantaneous or not (for electrons)?


Does the new finding on “reversing a quantum jump mid-flight” rule out any interpretations of QM?How do electrons jump orbitals?Does an electron move from one excitation state to another, or jump?How fast does an electron jump between orbitals?Quantum jump of an electronthe type of movement in electron jump between levels?H atom's excited state lasts on average $10^-8$ secs, is there a time gap (of max 2*$10^-8$ secs) betwn. two consec. photon absorpt.-emiss. pairs?How do electrons jump orbitals?Is there any significance of atomic orbitals?Does Rydberg's formula work for different orbitals?Why can't electrons absorb any energy (i.e. absorb some energy of the photons necessary and emit the residual)?If orbital shells are just probability functions, why are quantum numbers only ever integers?H atom's excited state lasts on average $10^-8$ secs, is there a time gap (of max 2*$10^-8$ secs) betwn. two consec. photon absorpt.-emiss. pairs?Quantum numbers and radial probability of the electronsOrbitals and electron jumpingVirtual photon exchange instantaneouslyCan an electron absorb a photon even if it exceeds the energy required for the electron to jump up an energy level?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1












$begingroup$


This is not a duplicate, non of the answers gives a clear answer and most of the answers contradict.



There are so many questions about this and so many answers, but none of them says clearly if the electron's change of orbitals as per QM can be expressed at a time component or is measurable (takes time or not), or is instantaneous, or if it is limited by the speed of light or not, so or even say there is no jump at all.



I have read this question:



Quantum jump of an electron



How do electrons jump orbitals?



where Kyle Oman says:





So the answer to how an electron "jumps" between orbitals is actually the same as how it moves around within a single orbital; it just "does". The difference
is that to change orbitals, some property of the electron (one of the ones described by (n,l,m,s)) has to change. This is always accompanied by emission or absorption of a photon (even a spin flip involves a (very low energy) photon).





and where DarenW says:





A long time before the absorption, which for an atom is a few femtoseconds or so, this mix is 100% of the 2s state, and a few femtoseconds or so after the absorption, it's 100% the 3p state. Between, during the absorption process, it's a mix of many orbitals with wildly changing coefficients.





Does an electron move from one excitation state to another, or jump?



where annav says:





A probability density distribution can be a function of time, depending on the boundary conditions of the problem. There is no "instantaneous" physically, as everything is bounded by the velocity of light. It is the specific example that is missing in your question. If there is time involved in the measurement the probability density may have a time dependence.





and where akhmeteli says:





I would say an electron moves from one state to another over some time period, which is not less than the so called natural line width.





the type of movement in electron jump between levels?



where John Forkosh says:





Note that the the electron is never measured in some intermediate-energy state. It's always measured either low-energy or high-energy, nothing in-between. But the probability of measuring low-or-high slowly and continuously varies from one to the other. So you can't say there's some particular time at which a "jump" occurs. There is no "jump".





How fast does an electron jump between orbitals?



where annav says:





If you look at the spectral lines emitted by transiting electrons from one energy level to another, you will see that the lines have a width . This width in principle should be intrinsic and calculable if all the possible potentials that would influence it can be included in the solution of the quantum mechanical state.
Experimentally the energy width can be transformed to a time interval using the Heisneberg Uncertainty of
ΔEΔt>h/2π
So an order of magnitude for the time taken for the transition can be estimated.





H atom's excited state lasts on average $10^-8$ secs, is there a time gap (of max 2*$10^-8$ secs) betwn. two consec. photon absorpt.-emiss. pairs?



So it is very confusing because some of them are saying it is instantaneous, and there is no jump at all. Some are saying it is calculable. Some say it has to do with probabilities, and the electron is in a mixed state (superposition), but when measured it is in a single stable state. Some say it has to do with the speed of light since no information can travel faster, so electrons cannot change orbitals faster then c.



Now I would like to clarify this.



Question:



  1. Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?


  2. Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$


















    1












    $begingroup$


    This is not a duplicate, non of the answers gives a clear answer and most of the answers contradict.



    There are so many questions about this and so many answers, but none of them says clearly if the electron's change of orbitals as per QM can be expressed at a time component or is measurable (takes time or not), or is instantaneous, or if it is limited by the speed of light or not, so or even say there is no jump at all.



    I have read this question:



    Quantum jump of an electron



    How do electrons jump orbitals?



    where Kyle Oman says:





    So the answer to how an electron "jumps" between orbitals is actually the same as how it moves around within a single orbital; it just "does". The difference
    is that to change orbitals, some property of the electron (one of the ones described by (n,l,m,s)) has to change. This is always accompanied by emission or absorption of a photon (even a spin flip involves a (very low energy) photon).





    and where DarenW says:





    A long time before the absorption, which for an atom is a few femtoseconds or so, this mix is 100% of the 2s state, and a few femtoseconds or so after the absorption, it's 100% the 3p state. Between, during the absorption process, it's a mix of many orbitals with wildly changing coefficients.





    Does an electron move from one excitation state to another, or jump?



    where annav says:





    A probability density distribution can be a function of time, depending on the boundary conditions of the problem. There is no "instantaneous" physically, as everything is bounded by the velocity of light. It is the specific example that is missing in your question. If there is time involved in the measurement the probability density may have a time dependence.





    and where akhmeteli says:





    I would say an electron moves from one state to another over some time period, which is not less than the so called natural line width.





    the type of movement in electron jump between levels?



    where John Forkosh says:





    Note that the the electron is never measured in some intermediate-energy state. It's always measured either low-energy or high-energy, nothing in-between. But the probability of measuring low-or-high slowly and continuously varies from one to the other. So you can't say there's some particular time at which a "jump" occurs. There is no "jump".





    How fast does an electron jump between orbitals?



    where annav says:





    If you look at the spectral lines emitted by transiting electrons from one energy level to another, you will see that the lines have a width . This width in principle should be intrinsic and calculable if all the possible potentials that would influence it can be included in the solution of the quantum mechanical state.
    Experimentally the energy width can be transformed to a time interval using the Heisneberg Uncertainty of
    ΔEΔt>h/2π
    So an order of magnitude for the time taken for the transition can be estimated.





    H atom's excited state lasts on average $10^-8$ secs, is there a time gap (of max 2*$10^-8$ secs) betwn. two consec. photon absorpt.-emiss. pairs?



    So it is very confusing because some of them are saying it is instantaneous, and there is no jump at all. Some are saying it is calculable. Some say it has to do with probabilities, and the electron is in a mixed state (superposition), but when measured it is in a single stable state. Some say it has to do with the speed of light since no information can travel faster, so electrons cannot change orbitals faster then c.



    Now I would like to clarify this.



    Question:



    1. Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?


    2. Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      This is not a duplicate, non of the answers gives a clear answer and most of the answers contradict.



      There are so many questions about this and so many answers, but none of them says clearly if the electron's change of orbitals as per QM can be expressed at a time component or is measurable (takes time or not), or is instantaneous, or if it is limited by the speed of light or not, so or even say there is no jump at all.



      I have read this question:



      Quantum jump of an electron



      How do electrons jump orbitals?



      where Kyle Oman says:





      So the answer to how an electron "jumps" between orbitals is actually the same as how it moves around within a single orbital; it just "does". The difference
      is that to change orbitals, some property of the electron (one of the ones described by (n,l,m,s)) has to change. This is always accompanied by emission or absorption of a photon (even a spin flip involves a (very low energy) photon).





      and where DarenW says:





      A long time before the absorption, which for an atom is a few femtoseconds or so, this mix is 100% of the 2s state, and a few femtoseconds or so after the absorption, it's 100% the 3p state. Between, during the absorption process, it's a mix of many orbitals with wildly changing coefficients.





      Does an electron move from one excitation state to another, or jump?



      where annav says:





      A probability density distribution can be a function of time, depending on the boundary conditions of the problem. There is no "instantaneous" physically, as everything is bounded by the velocity of light. It is the specific example that is missing in your question. If there is time involved in the measurement the probability density may have a time dependence.





      and where akhmeteli says:





      I would say an electron moves from one state to another over some time period, which is not less than the so called natural line width.





      the type of movement in electron jump between levels?



      where John Forkosh says:





      Note that the the electron is never measured in some intermediate-energy state. It's always measured either low-energy or high-energy, nothing in-between. But the probability of measuring low-or-high slowly and continuously varies from one to the other. So you can't say there's some particular time at which a "jump" occurs. There is no "jump".





      How fast does an electron jump between orbitals?



      where annav says:





      If you look at the spectral lines emitted by transiting electrons from one energy level to another, you will see that the lines have a width . This width in principle should be intrinsic and calculable if all the possible potentials that would influence it can be included in the solution of the quantum mechanical state.
      Experimentally the energy width can be transformed to a time interval using the Heisneberg Uncertainty of
      ΔEΔt>h/2π
      So an order of magnitude for the time taken for the transition can be estimated.





      H atom's excited state lasts on average $10^-8$ secs, is there a time gap (of max 2*$10^-8$ secs) betwn. two consec. photon absorpt.-emiss. pairs?



      So it is very confusing because some of them are saying it is instantaneous, and there is no jump at all. Some are saying it is calculable. Some say it has to do with probabilities, and the electron is in a mixed state (superposition), but when measured it is in a single stable state. Some say it has to do with the speed of light since no information can travel faster, so electrons cannot change orbitals faster then c.



      Now I would like to clarify this.



      Question:



      1. Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?


      2. Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      This is not a duplicate, non of the answers gives a clear answer and most of the answers contradict.



      There are so many questions about this and so many answers, but none of them says clearly if the electron's change of orbitals as per QM can be expressed at a time component or is measurable (takes time or not), or is instantaneous, or if it is limited by the speed of light or not, so or even say there is no jump at all.



      I have read this question:



      Quantum jump of an electron



      How do electrons jump orbitals?



      where Kyle Oman says:





      So the answer to how an electron "jumps" between orbitals is actually the same as how it moves around within a single orbital; it just "does". The difference
      is that to change orbitals, some property of the electron (one of the ones described by (n,l,m,s)) has to change. This is always accompanied by emission or absorption of a photon (even a spin flip involves a (very low energy) photon).





      and where DarenW says:





      A long time before the absorption, which for an atom is a few femtoseconds or so, this mix is 100% of the 2s state, and a few femtoseconds or so after the absorption, it's 100% the 3p state. Between, during the absorption process, it's a mix of many orbitals with wildly changing coefficients.





      Does an electron move from one excitation state to another, or jump?



      where annav says:





      A probability density distribution can be a function of time, depending on the boundary conditions of the problem. There is no "instantaneous" physically, as everything is bounded by the velocity of light. It is the specific example that is missing in your question. If there is time involved in the measurement the probability density may have a time dependence.





      and where akhmeteli says:





      I would say an electron moves from one state to another over some time period, which is not less than the so called natural line width.





      the type of movement in electron jump between levels?



      where John Forkosh says:





      Note that the the electron is never measured in some intermediate-energy state. It's always measured either low-energy or high-energy, nothing in-between. But the probability of measuring low-or-high slowly and continuously varies from one to the other. So you can't say there's some particular time at which a "jump" occurs. There is no "jump".





      How fast does an electron jump between orbitals?



      where annav says:





      If you look at the spectral lines emitted by transiting electrons from one energy level to another, you will see that the lines have a width . This width in principle should be intrinsic and calculable if all the possible potentials that would influence it can be included in the solution of the quantum mechanical state.
      Experimentally the energy width can be transformed to a time interval using the Heisneberg Uncertainty of
      ΔEΔt>h/2π
      So an order of magnitude for the time taken for the transition can be estimated.





      H atom's excited state lasts on average $10^-8$ secs, is there a time gap (of max 2*$10^-8$ secs) betwn. two consec. photon absorpt.-emiss. pairs?



      So it is very confusing because some of them are saying it is instantaneous, and there is no jump at all. Some are saying it is calculable. Some say it has to do with probabilities, and the electron is in a mixed state (superposition), but when measured it is in a single stable state. Some say it has to do with the speed of light since no information can travel faster, so electrons cannot change orbitals faster then c.



      Now I would like to clarify this.



      Question:



      1. Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?


      2. Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?







      quantum-mechanics electrons quantum-electrodynamics orbitals






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 9 hours ago







      Árpád Szendrei

















      asked 9 hours ago









      Árpád SzendreiÁrpád Szendrei

      6,1151 gold badge8 silver badges29 bronze badges




      6,1151 gold badge8 silver badges29 bronze badges




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          9












          $begingroup$


          Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?




          In every reasonable interpretation of this question, the answer is no. But there are historical and sociological reasons why a lot of people say the answer is yes.



          Consider an electron in a hydrogen atom which falls from the $2p$ state to the $1s$ state. The quantum state of the electron over time will be (assuming one can just trace out the environment without issue)
          $$|psi(t) rangle = c_1(t) |2p rangle + c_2(t) | 1s rangle.$$
          Over time, $c_1(t)$ smoothly decreases from one to zero, while $c_2(t)$ smoothly decreases from zero to one. So everything happens continuously, and there are no jumps.



          The reason some people might call this an instantaneous jump goes back to the very origins of quantum mechanics. In these archaic times, ancient physicists thought of the $|2 p rangle$ and $|1 s rangle$ states as classical orbits of different radii, rather than the atomic orbitals we know of today. If you take this naive view, then the electron really has to teleport from one radius to the other.



          It should be emphasized that, even though people won't stop passing on this misinformation, this view is completely wrong. It has been known to be wrong since the advent of the Schrodinger equation almost $100$ years ago. The wavefunction $psi(mathbfr, t)$ evolves perfectly continuously in time during this process, and there is no point when one can say a jump has "instantly" occurred.



          One reason one might think there is a jump is because, if you have an experimental apparatus that can only answer the question "is the state $|2p rangle$ or $|1s rangle$", then you can obviously only get one or the other. But this doesn't mean that the system has to teleport from one to the other, any more than only saying yes or no to a kid constantly asking "are we there yet?" means your car teleports.



          Another, less defensible reason, is that people are just passing it on because it's a well-known example of "quantum spookiness" and a totem of how unintuitive quantum mechanics is. Which it would be, if it were actually true. I think needlessly mysterious explanations like this hurt the public understanding of quantum mechanics more than they help.




          Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?




          In the context of nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, nothing is limited by the speed of light because the theory doesn't know about relativity. It's easy to take the Schrodinger equation and set up a solution with a particle moving faster than light. However, the results will not actually be trustworthy.



          Within nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, there's nothing that prevents $c_1(t)$ from going from one to zero arbitrarily fast. In practice, this will be hard to realize because of the energy-time uncertainty principle: if you would like to force the system to settle into the $|1 s rangle$ state within time $Delta t$, the overall energy has an uncertainty $hbar/Delta t$, which becomes large. I don't think speed-of-light limitations are relevant for common atomic emissions processes.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$















            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "151"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );













            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f488527%2fquantum-jump-leap-exist-or-not-and-instantaneous-or-not-for-electrons%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            9












            $begingroup$


            Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?




            In every reasonable interpretation of this question, the answer is no. But there are historical and sociological reasons why a lot of people say the answer is yes.



            Consider an electron in a hydrogen atom which falls from the $2p$ state to the $1s$ state. The quantum state of the electron over time will be (assuming one can just trace out the environment without issue)
            $$|psi(t) rangle = c_1(t) |2p rangle + c_2(t) | 1s rangle.$$
            Over time, $c_1(t)$ smoothly decreases from one to zero, while $c_2(t)$ smoothly decreases from zero to one. So everything happens continuously, and there are no jumps.



            The reason some people might call this an instantaneous jump goes back to the very origins of quantum mechanics. In these archaic times, ancient physicists thought of the $|2 p rangle$ and $|1 s rangle$ states as classical orbits of different radii, rather than the atomic orbitals we know of today. If you take this naive view, then the electron really has to teleport from one radius to the other.



            It should be emphasized that, even though people won't stop passing on this misinformation, this view is completely wrong. It has been known to be wrong since the advent of the Schrodinger equation almost $100$ years ago. The wavefunction $psi(mathbfr, t)$ evolves perfectly continuously in time during this process, and there is no point when one can say a jump has "instantly" occurred.



            One reason one might think there is a jump is because, if you have an experimental apparatus that can only answer the question "is the state $|2p rangle$ or $|1s rangle$", then you can obviously only get one or the other. But this doesn't mean that the system has to teleport from one to the other, any more than only saying yes or no to a kid constantly asking "are we there yet?" means your car teleports.



            Another, less defensible reason, is that people are just passing it on because it's a well-known example of "quantum spookiness" and a totem of how unintuitive quantum mechanics is. Which it would be, if it were actually true. I think needlessly mysterious explanations like this hurt the public understanding of quantum mechanics more than they help.




            Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?




            In the context of nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, nothing is limited by the speed of light because the theory doesn't know about relativity. It's easy to take the Schrodinger equation and set up a solution with a particle moving faster than light. However, the results will not actually be trustworthy.



            Within nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, there's nothing that prevents $c_1(t)$ from going from one to zero arbitrarily fast. In practice, this will be hard to realize because of the energy-time uncertainty principle: if you would like to force the system to settle into the $|1 s rangle$ state within time $Delta t$, the overall energy has an uncertainty $hbar/Delta t$, which becomes large. I don't think speed-of-light limitations are relevant for common atomic emissions processes.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$

















              9












              $begingroup$


              Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?




              In every reasonable interpretation of this question, the answer is no. But there are historical and sociological reasons why a lot of people say the answer is yes.



              Consider an electron in a hydrogen atom which falls from the $2p$ state to the $1s$ state. The quantum state of the electron over time will be (assuming one can just trace out the environment without issue)
              $$|psi(t) rangle = c_1(t) |2p rangle + c_2(t) | 1s rangle.$$
              Over time, $c_1(t)$ smoothly decreases from one to zero, while $c_2(t)$ smoothly decreases from zero to one. So everything happens continuously, and there are no jumps.



              The reason some people might call this an instantaneous jump goes back to the very origins of quantum mechanics. In these archaic times, ancient physicists thought of the $|2 p rangle$ and $|1 s rangle$ states as classical orbits of different radii, rather than the atomic orbitals we know of today. If you take this naive view, then the electron really has to teleport from one radius to the other.



              It should be emphasized that, even though people won't stop passing on this misinformation, this view is completely wrong. It has been known to be wrong since the advent of the Schrodinger equation almost $100$ years ago. The wavefunction $psi(mathbfr, t)$ evolves perfectly continuously in time during this process, and there is no point when one can say a jump has "instantly" occurred.



              One reason one might think there is a jump is because, if you have an experimental apparatus that can only answer the question "is the state $|2p rangle$ or $|1s rangle$", then you can obviously only get one or the other. But this doesn't mean that the system has to teleport from one to the other, any more than only saying yes or no to a kid constantly asking "are we there yet?" means your car teleports.



              Another, less defensible reason, is that people are just passing it on because it's a well-known example of "quantum spookiness" and a totem of how unintuitive quantum mechanics is. Which it would be, if it were actually true. I think needlessly mysterious explanations like this hurt the public understanding of quantum mechanics more than they help.




              Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?




              In the context of nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, nothing is limited by the speed of light because the theory doesn't know about relativity. It's easy to take the Schrodinger equation and set up a solution with a particle moving faster than light. However, the results will not actually be trustworthy.



              Within nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, there's nothing that prevents $c_1(t)$ from going from one to zero arbitrarily fast. In practice, this will be hard to realize because of the energy-time uncertainty principle: if you would like to force the system to settle into the $|1 s rangle$ state within time $Delta t$, the overall energy has an uncertainty $hbar/Delta t$, which becomes large. I don't think speed-of-light limitations are relevant for common atomic emissions processes.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$















                9












                9








                9





                $begingroup$


                Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?




                In every reasonable interpretation of this question, the answer is no. But there are historical and sociological reasons why a lot of people say the answer is yes.



                Consider an electron in a hydrogen atom which falls from the $2p$ state to the $1s$ state. The quantum state of the electron over time will be (assuming one can just trace out the environment without issue)
                $$|psi(t) rangle = c_1(t) |2p rangle + c_2(t) | 1s rangle.$$
                Over time, $c_1(t)$ smoothly decreases from one to zero, while $c_2(t)$ smoothly decreases from zero to one. So everything happens continuously, and there are no jumps.



                The reason some people might call this an instantaneous jump goes back to the very origins of quantum mechanics. In these archaic times, ancient physicists thought of the $|2 p rangle$ and $|1 s rangle$ states as classical orbits of different radii, rather than the atomic orbitals we know of today. If you take this naive view, then the electron really has to teleport from one radius to the other.



                It should be emphasized that, even though people won't stop passing on this misinformation, this view is completely wrong. It has been known to be wrong since the advent of the Schrodinger equation almost $100$ years ago. The wavefunction $psi(mathbfr, t)$ evolves perfectly continuously in time during this process, and there is no point when one can say a jump has "instantly" occurred.



                One reason one might think there is a jump is because, if you have an experimental apparatus that can only answer the question "is the state $|2p rangle$ or $|1s rangle$", then you can obviously only get one or the other. But this doesn't mean that the system has to teleport from one to the other, any more than only saying yes or no to a kid constantly asking "are we there yet?" means your car teleports.



                Another, less defensible reason, is that people are just passing it on because it's a well-known example of "quantum spookiness" and a totem of how unintuitive quantum mechanics is. Which it would be, if it were actually true. I think needlessly mysterious explanations like this hurt the public understanding of quantum mechanics more than they help.




                Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?




                In the context of nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, nothing is limited by the speed of light because the theory doesn't know about relativity. It's easy to take the Schrodinger equation and set up a solution with a particle moving faster than light. However, the results will not actually be trustworthy.



                Within nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, there's nothing that prevents $c_1(t)$ from going from one to zero arbitrarily fast. In practice, this will be hard to realize because of the energy-time uncertainty principle: if you would like to force the system to settle into the $|1 s rangle$ state within time $Delta t$, the overall energy has an uncertainty $hbar/Delta t$, which becomes large. I don't think speed-of-light limitations are relevant for common atomic emissions processes.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$




                Do electrons change orbitals as per QM instantaneously?




                In every reasonable interpretation of this question, the answer is no. But there are historical and sociological reasons why a lot of people say the answer is yes.



                Consider an electron in a hydrogen atom which falls from the $2p$ state to the $1s$ state. The quantum state of the electron over time will be (assuming one can just trace out the environment without issue)
                $$|psi(t) rangle = c_1(t) |2p rangle + c_2(t) | 1s rangle.$$
                Over time, $c_1(t)$ smoothly decreases from one to zero, while $c_2(t)$ smoothly decreases from zero to one. So everything happens continuously, and there are no jumps.



                The reason some people might call this an instantaneous jump goes back to the very origins of quantum mechanics. In these archaic times, ancient physicists thought of the $|2 p rangle$ and $|1 s rangle$ states as classical orbits of different radii, rather than the atomic orbitals we know of today. If you take this naive view, then the electron really has to teleport from one radius to the other.



                It should be emphasized that, even though people won't stop passing on this misinformation, this view is completely wrong. It has been known to be wrong since the advent of the Schrodinger equation almost $100$ years ago. The wavefunction $psi(mathbfr, t)$ evolves perfectly continuously in time during this process, and there is no point when one can say a jump has "instantly" occurred.



                One reason one might think there is a jump is because, if you have an experimental apparatus that can only answer the question "is the state $|2p rangle$ or $|1s rangle$", then you can obviously only get one or the other. But this doesn't mean that the system has to teleport from one to the other, any more than only saying yes or no to a kid constantly asking "are we there yet?" means your car teleports.



                Another, less defensible reason, is that people are just passing it on because it's a well-known example of "quantum spookiness" and a totem of how unintuitive quantum mechanics is. Which it would be, if it were actually true. I think needlessly mysterious explanations like this hurt the public understanding of quantum mechanics more than they help.




                Is this change limited by the speed of light or not?




                In the context of nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, nothing is limited by the speed of light because the theory doesn't know about relativity. It's easy to take the Schrodinger equation and set up a solution with a particle moving faster than light. However, the results will not actually be trustworthy.



                Within nonrelativistic quantum mechanics, there's nothing that prevents $c_1(t)$ from going from one to zero arbitrarily fast. In practice, this will be hard to realize because of the energy-time uncertainty principle: if you would like to force the system to settle into the $|1 s rangle$ state within time $Delta t$, the overall energy has an uncertainty $hbar/Delta t$, which becomes large. I don't think speed-of-light limitations are relevant for common atomic emissions processes.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 9 hours ago









                knzhouknzhou

                51.7k13 gold badges144 silver badges250 bronze badges




                51.7k13 gold badges144 silver badges250 bronze badges



























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded
















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Physics Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid


                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f488527%2fquantum-jump-leap-exist-or-not-and-instantaneous-or-not-for-electrons%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    19. јануар Садржај Догађаји Рођења Смрти Празници и дани сећања Види још Референце Мени за навигацијуу

                    Israel Cuprins Etimologie | Istorie | Geografie | Politică | Demografie | Educație | Economie | Cultură | Note explicative | Note bibliografice | Bibliografie | Legături externe | Meniu de navigaresite web oficialfacebooktweeterGoogle+Instagramcanal YouTubeInstagramtextmodificaremodificarewww.technion.ac.ilnew.huji.ac.ilwww.weizmann.ac.ilwww1.biu.ac.ilenglish.tau.ac.ilwww.haifa.ac.ilin.bgu.ac.ilwww.openu.ac.ilwww.ariel.ac.ilCIA FactbookHarta Israelului"Negotiating Jerusalem," Palestine–Israel JournalThe Schizoid Nature of Modern Hebrew: A Slavic Language in Search of a Semitic Past„Arabic in Israel: an official language and a cultural bridge”„Latest Population Statistics for Israel”„Israel Population”„Tables”„Report for Selected Countries and Subjects”Human Development Report 2016: Human Development for Everyone„Distribution of family income - Gini index”The World FactbookJerusalem Law„Israel”„Israel”„Zionist Leaders: David Ben-Gurion 1886–1973”„The status of Jerusalem”„Analysis: Kadima's big plans”„Israel's Hard-Learned Lessons”„The Legacy of Undefined Borders, Tel Aviv Notes No. 40, 5 iunie 2002”„Israel Journal: A Land Without Borders”„Population”„Israel closes decade with population of 7.5 million”Time Series-DataBank„Selected Statistics on Jerusalem Day 2007 (Hebrew)”Golan belongs to Syria, Druze protestGlobal Survey 2006: Middle East Progress Amid Global Gains in FreedomWHO: Life expectancy in Israel among highest in the worldInternational Monetary Fund, World Economic Outlook Database, April 2011: Nominal GDP list of countries. Data for the year 2010.„Israel's accession to the OECD”Popular Opinion„On the Move”Hosea 12:5„Walking the Bible Timeline”„Palestine: History”„Return to Zion”An invention called 'the Jewish people' – Haaretz – Israel NewsoriginalJewish and Non-Jewish Population of Palestine-Israel (1517–2004)ImmigrationJewishvirtuallibrary.orgChapter One: The Heralders of Zionism„The birth of modern Israel: A scrap of paper that changed history”„League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, 24 iulie 1922”The Population of Palestine Prior to 1948originalBackground Paper No. 47 (ST/DPI/SER.A/47)History: Foreign DominationTwo Hundred and Seventh Plenary Meeting„Israel (Labor Zionism)”Population, by Religion and Population GroupThe Suez CrisisAdolf EichmannJustice Ministry Reply to Amnesty International Report„The Interregnum”Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs – The Palestinian National Covenant- July 1968Research on terrorism: trends, achievements & failuresThe Routledge Atlas of the Arab–Israeli conflict: The Complete History of the Struggle and the Efforts to Resolve It"George Habash, Palestinian Terrorism Tactician, Dies at 82."„1973: Arab states attack Israeli forces”Agranat Commission„Has Israel Annexed East Jerusalem?”original„After 4 Years, Intifada Still Smolders”From the End of the Cold War to 2001originalThe Oslo Accords, 1993Israel-PLO Recognition – Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat – Sept 9- 1993Foundation for Middle East PeaceSources of Population Growth: Total Israeli Population and Settler Population, 1991–2003original„Israel marks Rabin assassination”The Wye River Memorandumoriginal„West Bank barrier route disputed, Israeli missile kills 2”"Permanent Ceasefire to Be Based on Creation Of Buffer Zone Free of Armed Personnel Other than UN, Lebanese Forces"„Hezbollah kills 8 soldiers, kidnaps two in offensive on northern border”„Olmert confirms peace talks with Syria”„Battleground Gaza: Israeli ground forces invade the strip”„IDF begins Gaza troop withdrawal, hours after ending 3-week offensive”„THE LAND: Geography and Climate”„Area of districts, sub-districts, natural regions and lakes”„Israel - Geography”„Makhteshim Country”Israel and the Palestinian Territories„Makhtesh Ramon”„The Living Dead Sea”„Temperatures reach record high in Pakistan”„Climate Extremes In Israel”Israel in figures„Deuteronom”„JNF: 240 million trees planted since 1901”„Vegetation of Israel and Neighboring Countries”Environmental Law in Israel„Executive branch”„Israel's election process explained”„The Electoral System in Israel”„Constitution for Israel”„All 120 incoming Knesset members”„Statul ISRAEL”„The Judiciary: The Court System”„Israel's high court unique in region”„Israel and the International Criminal Court: A Legal Battlefield”„Localities and population, by population group, district, sub-district and natural region”„Israel: Districts, Major Cities, Urban Localities & Metropolitan Areas”„Israel-Egypt Relations: Background & Overview of Peace Treaty”„Solana to Haaretz: New Rules of War Needed for Age of Terror”„Israel's Announcement Regarding Settlements”„United Nations Security Council Resolution 497”„Security Council resolution 478 (1980) on the status of Jerusalem”„Arabs will ask U.N. to seek razing of Israeli wall”„Olmert: Willing to trade land for peace”„Mapping Peace between Syria and Israel”„Egypt: Israel must accept the land-for-peace formula”„Israel: Age structure from 2005 to 2015”„Global, regional, and national disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) for 306 diseases and injuries and healthy life expectancy (HALE) for 188 countries, 1990–2013: quantifying the epidemiological transition”10.1016/S0140-6736(15)61340-X„World Health Statistics 2014”„Life expectancy for Israeli men world's 4th highest”„Family Structure and Well-Being Across Israel's Diverse Population”„Fertility among Jewish and Muslim Women in Israel, by Level of Religiosity, 1979-2009”„Israel leaders in birth rate, but poverty major challenge”„Ethnic Groups”„Israel's population: Over 8.5 million”„Israel - Ethnic groups”„Jews, by country of origin and age”„Minority Communities in Israel: Background & Overview”„Israel”„Language in Israel”„Selected Data from the 2011 Social Survey on Mastery of the Hebrew Language and Usage of Languages”„Religions”„5 facts about Israeli Druze, a unique religious and ethnic group”„Israël”Israel Country Study Guide„Haredi city in Negev – blessing or curse?”„New town Harish harbors hopes of being more than another Pleasantville”„List of localities, in alphabetical order”„Muncitorii români, doriți în Israel”„Prietenia româno-israeliană la nevoie se cunoaște”„The Higher Education System in Israel”„Middle East”„Academic Ranking of World Universities 2016”„Israel”„Israel”„Jewish Nobel Prize Winners”„All Nobel Prizes in Literature”„All Nobel Peace Prizes”„All Prizes in Economic Sciences”„All Nobel Prizes in Chemistry”„List of Fields Medallists”„Sakharov Prize”„Țara care și-a sfidat "destinul" și se bate umăr la umăr cu Silicon Valley”„Apple's R&D center in Israel grew to about 800 employees”„Tim Cook: Apple's Herzliya R&D center second-largest in world”„Lecții de economie de la Israel”„Land use”Israel Investment and Business GuideA Country Study: IsraelCentral Bureau of StatisticsFlorin Diaconu, „Kadima: Flexibilitate și pragmatism, dar nici un compromis în chestiuni vitale", în Revista Institutului Diplomatic Român, anul I, numărul I, semestrul I, 2006, pp. 71-72Florin Diaconu, „Likud: Dreapta israeliană constant opusă retrocedării teritoriilor cureite prin luptă în 1967", în Revista Institutului Diplomatic Român, anul I, numărul I, semestrul I, 2006, pp. 73-74MassadaIsraelul a crescut in 50 de ani cât alte state intr-un mileniuIsrael Government PortalIsraelIsraelIsraelmmmmmXX451232cb118646298(data)4027808-634110000 0004 0372 0767n7900328503691455-bb46-37e3-91d2-cb064a35ffcc1003570400564274ge1294033523775214929302638955X146498911146498911

                    Smell Mother Skizze Discussion Tachometer Jar Alligator Star 끌다 자세 의문 과학적t Barbaric The round system critiques the connection. Definition: A wind instrument of music in use among the Spaniards Nasty Level 이상 분노 금년 월급 근교 Cloth Owner Permissible Shock Purring Parched Raise 오전 장면 햄 서투르다 The smash instructs the squeamish instrument. Large Nosy Nalpure Chalk Travel Crayon Bite your tongue The Hulk 신호 대사 사과하다 The work boosts the knowledgeable size. Steeplump Level Wooden Shake Teaching Jump 이제 복도 접다 공중전화 부지런하다 Rub Average Ruthless Busyglide Glost oven Didelphia Control A fly on the wall Jaws 지하철 거