If two Lore Bards used the Cutting Words feature on an ability check or attack, would they stack?When a creature is hit with more than one fireball simultaneously, do they take damage from all of them?Can a Lore bard's Cutting Words feature cancel a critical hit?Does Cutting Words reduce the damage taken by every target of an AoE spell or attack?How much does a bard know when they decide to use Cutting Words?How can a DM deal with abilities that affect how an attack roll is resolved?What part of a multi-type damage roll is reduced by a non-type-specific effect?Can a Lore bard use Cutting Words against the attack roll/ability check of a sorcerer's Subtle spell?Can Sentinel at Death's Door and Cutting Words combine to make a critical hit miss?What happens when two opposing instances of Bend Luck are applied to the same roll by multiple Wild Magic sorcerers?Can either the Nondetection or Mind Blank spells prevent information about oneself being divined from others through the Legend Lore spell?
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If two Lore Bards used the Cutting Words feature on an ability check or attack, would they stack?
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If two Lore Bards used the Cutting Words feature on an ability check or attack, would they stack?
When a creature is hit with more than one fireball simultaneously, do they take damage from all of them?Can a Lore bard's Cutting Words feature cancel a critical hit?Does Cutting Words reduce the damage taken by every target of an AoE spell or attack?How much does a bard know when they decide to use Cutting Words?How can a DM deal with abilities that affect how an attack roll is resolved?What part of a multi-type damage roll is reduced by a non-type-specific effect?Can a Lore bard use Cutting Words against the attack roll/ability check of a sorcerer's Subtle spell?Can Sentinel at Death's Door and Cutting Words combine to make a critical hit miss?What happens when two opposing instances of Bend Luck are applied to the same roll by multiple Wild Magic sorcerers?Can either the Nondetection or Mind Blank spells prevent information about oneself being divined from others through the Legend Lore spell?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
Let's say the party had two Lore Bards, and both used Cutting Words on a creature who tried to attack.
Does that stack, since they are separate penalties and not enduring effects (like bless)? Or would it still fall under the "same name features don't stack" rule?
dnd-5e class-feature bard stacking simultaneous-effects
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's say the party had two Lore Bards, and both used Cutting Words on a creature who tried to attack.
Does that stack, since they are separate penalties and not enduring effects (like bless)? Or would it still fall under the "same name features don't stack" rule?
dnd-5e class-feature bard stacking simultaneous-effects
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's say the party had two Lore Bards, and both used Cutting Words on a creature who tried to attack.
Does that stack, since they are separate penalties and not enduring effects (like bless)? Or would it still fall under the "same name features don't stack" rule?
dnd-5e class-feature bard stacking simultaneous-effects
$endgroup$
Let's say the party had two Lore Bards, and both used Cutting Words on a creature who tried to attack.
Does that stack, since they are separate penalties and not enduring effects (like bless)? Or would it still fall under the "same name features don't stack" rule?
dnd-5e class-feature bard stacking simultaneous-effects
dnd-5e class-feature bard stacking simultaneous-effects
edited 32 mins ago
V2Blast♦
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33.8k5 gold badges123 silver badges212 bronze badges
asked 11 hours ago
CyanicCyanic
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add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
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oldest
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$begingroup$
They would stack because they have no duration
The rules on stacking/combining game effects states (page 252):
[W]hen two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them — the most potent one — apply while the durations of the effects overlap
I would argue that modifiers to rolls do not actually have a duration and so they cannot actually overlap, so the clause about stacking effects won't apply.
This is similar to the answer to a similar question about simultaneous fireballs which argues that you would take damage twice because the spells (and their damage) are instantaneous effects without duration.
Similarly the modifier of Cutting Words does not have any sort of persisting effect that you could call a duration, it simply happens.
Because modifiers do not have a duration and nothing with a duration is causing the modifiers to occur (such as with the bless spell) two uses of Cutting Words can combine against a single attack.
A small additional note:
The actual applications of Cutting Words are not even happening at the same time. Though they would result from the same trigger the optional rules on simultaneous events from Xanathar's states:
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table-whether player or DM-who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character's turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
This means that the modifiers from Cutting Words would not actually get applied at the same time, it would be one and then the other. So even if instantaneous were a duration the use of this rule would make it so that those durations were not overlapping and thus the stacking effects rule would not apply.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
OOOOoooo.... that is something I didn't think about. Feels broken, but you might be technically correct ("the best kind of correct" - Futurama).
$endgroup$
– J. A. Streich
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Combining Effects
No, the rule for Combining Game Effects says that s of the same name don't stack effects while they overlap.
“Different game features can
affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells,
class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the ‘Combining Magical Effects’ section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
Similar to the fire example, Cutting Words reads:
you learn how to use your wit to distract, confuse, and otherwise sap the confidence and competence of others.
You shouldn't be able to become "more distracted and confused" on a single attack.
But it is Instantaneous
Now, Cutting Words doesn't have a duration, but in the case of cutting words they are happening at the same time, so they are clearly over lapping as they are both happening when the attack is happening (not just same round 6 seconds, but as the effect is landing). It would be hard to argue that they aren't happening at the same time as they are both reactions to the same split second action.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Think about this, what if you had two characters with the Warcaster feat. An enemy is adjacent to them and moves in a way that provokes an AoO from both of them at the same time. Both of them respond by casting the same damage spell (eg. inflict wounds) at it and both hit. Since both spells are hitting at the same time then, by your logic, only one of the spells does damage.
$endgroup$
– Allan Mills
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@allanmills I at least would use the Xanathar's simultaneous events optional rule. So they aren't actually hitting at the same time
$endgroup$
– Medix2
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
They would stack because they have no duration
The rules on stacking/combining game effects states (page 252):
[W]hen two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them — the most potent one — apply while the durations of the effects overlap
I would argue that modifiers to rolls do not actually have a duration and so they cannot actually overlap, so the clause about stacking effects won't apply.
This is similar to the answer to a similar question about simultaneous fireballs which argues that you would take damage twice because the spells (and their damage) are instantaneous effects without duration.
Similarly the modifier of Cutting Words does not have any sort of persisting effect that you could call a duration, it simply happens.
Because modifiers do not have a duration and nothing with a duration is causing the modifiers to occur (such as with the bless spell) two uses of Cutting Words can combine against a single attack.
A small additional note:
The actual applications of Cutting Words are not even happening at the same time. Though they would result from the same trigger the optional rules on simultaneous events from Xanathar's states:
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table-whether player or DM-who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character's turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
This means that the modifiers from Cutting Words would not actually get applied at the same time, it would be one and then the other. So even if instantaneous were a duration the use of this rule would make it so that those durations were not overlapping and thus the stacking effects rule would not apply.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
OOOOoooo.... that is something I didn't think about. Feels broken, but you might be technically correct ("the best kind of correct" - Futurama).
$endgroup$
– J. A. Streich
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
They would stack because they have no duration
The rules on stacking/combining game effects states (page 252):
[W]hen two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them — the most potent one — apply while the durations of the effects overlap
I would argue that modifiers to rolls do not actually have a duration and so they cannot actually overlap, so the clause about stacking effects won't apply.
This is similar to the answer to a similar question about simultaneous fireballs which argues that you would take damage twice because the spells (and their damage) are instantaneous effects without duration.
Similarly the modifier of Cutting Words does not have any sort of persisting effect that you could call a duration, it simply happens.
Because modifiers do not have a duration and nothing with a duration is causing the modifiers to occur (such as with the bless spell) two uses of Cutting Words can combine against a single attack.
A small additional note:
The actual applications of Cutting Words are not even happening at the same time. Though they would result from the same trigger the optional rules on simultaneous events from Xanathar's states:
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table-whether player or DM-who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character's turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
This means that the modifiers from Cutting Words would not actually get applied at the same time, it would be one and then the other. So even if instantaneous were a duration the use of this rule would make it so that those durations were not overlapping and thus the stacking effects rule would not apply.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
OOOOoooo.... that is something I didn't think about. Feels broken, but you might be technically correct ("the best kind of correct" - Futurama).
$endgroup$
– J. A. Streich
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
They would stack because they have no duration
The rules on stacking/combining game effects states (page 252):
[W]hen two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them — the most potent one — apply while the durations of the effects overlap
I would argue that modifiers to rolls do not actually have a duration and so they cannot actually overlap, so the clause about stacking effects won't apply.
This is similar to the answer to a similar question about simultaneous fireballs which argues that you would take damage twice because the spells (and their damage) are instantaneous effects without duration.
Similarly the modifier of Cutting Words does not have any sort of persisting effect that you could call a duration, it simply happens.
Because modifiers do not have a duration and nothing with a duration is causing the modifiers to occur (such as with the bless spell) two uses of Cutting Words can combine against a single attack.
A small additional note:
The actual applications of Cutting Words are not even happening at the same time. Though they would result from the same trigger the optional rules on simultaneous events from Xanathar's states:
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table-whether player or DM-who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character's turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
This means that the modifiers from Cutting Words would not actually get applied at the same time, it would be one and then the other. So even if instantaneous were a duration the use of this rule would make it so that those durations were not overlapping and thus the stacking effects rule would not apply.
$endgroup$
They would stack because they have no duration
The rules on stacking/combining game effects states (page 252):
[W]hen two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them — the most potent one — apply while the durations of the effects overlap
I would argue that modifiers to rolls do not actually have a duration and so they cannot actually overlap, so the clause about stacking effects won't apply.
This is similar to the answer to a similar question about simultaneous fireballs which argues that you would take damage twice because the spells (and their damage) are instantaneous effects without duration.
Similarly the modifier of Cutting Words does not have any sort of persisting effect that you could call a duration, it simply happens.
Because modifiers do not have a duration and nothing with a duration is causing the modifiers to occur (such as with the bless spell) two uses of Cutting Words can combine against a single attack.
A small additional note:
The actual applications of Cutting Words are not even happening at the same time. Though they would result from the same trigger the optional rules on simultaneous events from Xanathar's states:
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster's turn, the person at the game table-whether player or DM-who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character's turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
This means that the modifiers from Cutting Words would not actually get applied at the same time, it would be one and then the other. So even if instantaneous were a duration the use of this rule would make it so that those durations were not overlapping and thus the stacking effects rule would not apply.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
Medix2Medix2
7,4762 gold badges20 silver badges80 bronze badges
7,4762 gold badges20 silver badges80 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
OOOOoooo.... that is something I didn't think about. Feels broken, but you might be technically correct ("the best kind of correct" - Futurama).
$endgroup$
– J. A. Streich
9 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
OOOOoooo.... that is something I didn't think about. Feels broken, but you might be technically correct ("the best kind of correct" - Futurama).
$endgroup$
– J. A. Streich
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
OOOOoooo.... that is something I didn't think about. Feels broken, but you might be technically correct ("the best kind of correct" - Futurama).
$endgroup$
– J. A. Streich
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
OOOOoooo.... that is something I didn't think about. Feels broken, but you might be technically correct ("the best kind of correct" - Futurama).
$endgroup$
– J. A. Streich
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Combining Effects
No, the rule for Combining Game Effects says that s of the same name don't stack effects while they overlap.
“Different game features can
affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells,
class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the ‘Combining Magical Effects’ section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
Similar to the fire example, Cutting Words reads:
you learn how to use your wit to distract, confuse, and otherwise sap the confidence and competence of others.
You shouldn't be able to become "more distracted and confused" on a single attack.
But it is Instantaneous
Now, Cutting Words doesn't have a duration, but in the case of cutting words they are happening at the same time, so they are clearly over lapping as they are both happening when the attack is happening (not just same round 6 seconds, but as the effect is landing). It would be hard to argue that they aren't happening at the same time as they are both reactions to the same split second action.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Think about this, what if you had two characters with the Warcaster feat. An enemy is adjacent to them and moves in a way that provokes an AoO from both of them at the same time. Both of them respond by casting the same damage spell (eg. inflict wounds) at it and both hit. Since both spells are hitting at the same time then, by your logic, only one of the spells does damage.
$endgroup$
– Allan Mills
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@allanmills I at least would use the Xanathar's simultaneous events optional rule. So they aren't actually hitting at the same time
$endgroup$
– Medix2
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Combining Effects
No, the rule for Combining Game Effects says that s of the same name don't stack effects while they overlap.
“Different game features can
affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells,
class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the ‘Combining Magical Effects’ section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
Similar to the fire example, Cutting Words reads:
you learn how to use your wit to distract, confuse, and otherwise sap the confidence and competence of others.
You shouldn't be able to become "more distracted and confused" on a single attack.
But it is Instantaneous
Now, Cutting Words doesn't have a duration, but in the case of cutting words they are happening at the same time, so they are clearly over lapping as they are both happening when the attack is happening (not just same round 6 seconds, but as the effect is landing). It would be hard to argue that they aren't happening at the same time as they are both reactions to the same split second action.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Think about this, what if you had two characters with the Warcaster feat. An enemy is adjacent to them and moves in a way that provokes an AoO from both of them at the same time. Both of them respond by casting the same damage spell (eg. inflict wounds) at it and both hit. Since both spells are hitting at the same time then, by your logic, only one of the spells does damage.
$endgroup$
– Allan Mills
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@allanmills I at least would use the Xanathar's simultaneous events optional rule. So they aren't actually hitting at the same time
$endgroup$
– Medix2
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Combining Effects
No, the rule for Combining Game Effects says that s of the same name don't stack effects while they overlap.
“Different game features can
affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells,
class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the ‘Combining Magical Effects’ section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
Similar to the fire example, Cutting Words reads:
you learn how to use your wit to distract, confuse, and otherwise sap the confidence and competence of others.
You shouldn't be able to become "more distracted and confused" on a single attack.
But it is Instantaneous
Now, Cutting Words doesn't have a duration, but in the case of cutting words they are happening at the same time, so they are clearly over lapping as they are both happening when the attack is happening (not just same round 6 seconds, but as the effect is landing). It would be hard to argue that they aren't happening at the same time as they are both reactions to the same split second action.
$endgroup$
Combining Effects
No, the rule for Combining Game Effects says that s of the same name don't stack effects while they overlap.
“Different game features can
affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells,
class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the ‘Combining Magical Effects’ section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
Similar to the fire example, Cutting Words reads:
you learn how to use your wit to distract, confuse, and otherwise sap the confidence and competence of others.
You shouldn't be able to become "more distracted and confused" on a single attack.
But it is Instantaneous
Now, Cutting Words doesn't have a duration, but in the case of cutting words they are happening at the same time, so they are clearly over lapping as they are both happening when the attack is happening (not just same round 6 seconds, but as the effect is landing). It would be hard to argue that they aren't happening at the same time as they are both reactions to the same split second action.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
J. A. StreichJ. A. Streich
28.8k2 gold badges83 silver badges142 bronze badges
28.8k2 gold badges83 silver badges142 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Think about this, what if you had two characters with the Warcaster feat. An enemy is adjacent to them and moves in a way that provokes an AoO from both of them at the same time. Both of them respond by casting the same damage spell (eg. inflict wounds) at it and both hit. Since both spells are hitting at the same time then, by your logic, only one of the spells does damage.
$endgroup$
– Allan Mills
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@allanmills I at least would use the Xanathar's simultaneous events optional rule. So they aren't actually hitting at the same time
$endgroup$
– Medix2
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Think about this, what if you had two characters with the Warcaster feat. An enemy is adjacent to them and moves in a way that provokes an AoO from both of them at the same time. Both of them respond by casting the same damage spell (eg. inflict wounds) at it and both hit. Since both spells are hitting at the same time then, by your logic, only one of the spells does damage.
$endgroup$
– Allan Mills
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@allanmills I at least would use the Xanathar's simultaneous events optional rule. So they aren't actually hitting at the same time
$endgroup$
– Medix2
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Think about this, what if you had two characters with the Warcaster feat. An enemy is adjacent to them and moves in a way that provokes an AoO from both of them at the same time. Both of them respond by casting the same damage spell (eg. inflict wounds) at it and both hit. Since both spells are hitting at the same time then, by your logic, only one of the spells does damage.
$endgroup$
– Allan Mills
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Think about this, what if you had two characters with the Warcaster feat. An enemy is adjacent to them and moves in a way that provokes an AoO from both of them at the same time. Both of them respond by casting the same damage spell (eg. inflict wounds) at it and both hit. Since both spells are hitting at the same time then, by your logic, only one of the spells does damage.
$endgroup$
– Allan Mills
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@allanmills I at least would use the Xanathar's simultaneous events optional rule. So they aren't actually hitting at the same time
$endgroup$
– Medix2
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@allanmills I at least would use the Xanathar's simultaneous events optional rule. So they aren't actually hitting at the same time
$endgroup$
– Medix2
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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