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How can electric field be defined as force per charge, if the charge makes its own, singular electric field?


What is the purpose of defining an electric field, and how to apply it?Force on a layer of charge: How can electric field impart force on the charges which created the field?Gauss's law for cylinder with infinite height with a spherical cavityCharge per unit length of conductors to calculate electric fieldHow can I prove that, to a point outside a sphere, the charge is effectively located at the center?Is the static electric field $vecE$ defined and finite where charges are located?Where do photon gets its electric field without carrying charge?Is the electric field only a pictorial representation of the electric force or it has some deeper role to play?Fixed charge inside a conductor (Finding electric field)How can neutral atoms have exactly zero electric field when there is a difference in the positions of the charges?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








9












$begingroup$


The electric field $bfE$ represents how much force would act on a particle at a certain position per unit charge.
However, if we actually place a particle in that position, the electric field will have a singularity there (because of the $frac1r^2$ in Coulomb's law). Isn't this kind of a paradox? In my eyes, this makes the concept of electric field useless, because it cannot be used to calculate the force on a particle.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    More on singularity in Coulomb's law.
    $endgroup$
    – Qmechanic
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    general comment: physical laws doesn't have to be useful everywhere. They are just models that work in some circumstances. Part of physics education is to learn these details
    $endgroup$
    – aaaaaa
    1 hour ago

















9












$begingroup$


The electric field $bfE$ represents how much force would act on a particle at a certain position per unit charge.
However, if we actually place a particle in that position, the electric field will have a singularity there (because of the $frac1r^2$ in Coulomb's law). Isn't this kind of a paradox? In my eyes, this makes the concept of electric field useless, because it cannot be used to calculate the force on a particle.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    More on singularity in Coulomb's law.
    $endgroup$
    – Qmechanic
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    general comment: physical laws doesn't have to be useful everywhere. They are just models that work in some circumstances. Part of physics education is to learn these details
    $endgroup$
    – aaaaaa
    1 hour ago













9












9








9


2



$begingroup$


The electric field $bfE$ represents how much force would act on a particle at a certain position per unit charge.
However, if we actually place a particle in that position, the electric field will have a singularity there (because of the $frac1r^2$ in Coulomb's law). Isn't this kind of a paradox? In my eyes, this makes the concept of electric field useless, because it cannot be used to calculate the force on a particle.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




The electric field $bfE$ represents how much force would act on a particle at a certain position per unit charge.
However, if we actually place a particle in that position, the electric field will have a singularity there (because of the $frac1r^2$ in Coulomb's law). Isn't this kind of a paradox? In my eyes, this makes the concept of electric field useless, because it cannot be used to calculate the force on a particle.







electrostatics electric-fields singularities coulombs-law point-particles






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago









knzhou

53.3k13 gold badges147 silver badges258 bronze badges




53.3k13 gold badges147 silver badges258 bronze badges










asked 10 hours ago









AstroRPAstroRP

3063 silver badges12 bronze badges




3063 silver badges12 bronze badges











  • $begingroup$
    More on singularity in Coulomb's law.
    $endgroup$
    – Qmechanic
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    general comment: physical laws doesn't have to be useful everywhere. They are just models that work in some circumstances. Part of physics education is to learn these details
    $endgroup$
    – aaaaaa
    1 hour ago
















  • $begingroup$
    More on singularity in Coulomb's law.
    $endgroup$
    – Qmechanic
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    general comment: physical laws doesn't have to be useful everywhere. They are just models that work in some circumstances. Part of physics education is to learn these details
    $endgroup$
    – aaaaaa
    1 hour ago















$begingroup$
More on singularity in Coulomb's law.
$endgroup$
– Qmechanic
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
More on singularity in Coulomb's law.
$endgroup$
– Qmechanic
4 hours ago












$begingroup$
general comment: physical laws doesn't have to be useful everywhere. They are just models that work in some circumstances. Part of physics education is to learn these details
$endgroup$
– aaaaaa
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
general comment: physical laws doesn't have to be useful everywhere. They are just models that work in some circumstances. Part of physics education is to learn these details
$endgroup$
– aaaaaa
1 hour ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















15












$begingroup$

It's true that a point particle with finite charge is problematic in electromagnetism because of the infinite field and associated energy near such a particle. However, we don't need that concept in order to make a defining statement about the electric field. Rather, we can use
$$
bf E = lim_r rightarrow 0 fracbf fq
$$

where $bf f$ is the force on a charged sphere of radius $r$ with a finite charge density $rho$ independent of $r$, and $q = (4/3) pi r^3 rho$ is the charge on the sphere. This charge $q$ will tend to zero as the radius does, and it does so sufficiently quickly that no infinities arise and everything is ok.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    9












    $begingroup$

    You're forgetting one thing: a particle cannot feel its own electric field, so a point charge that generates a $1/r^2$ field doesn't do anything unless acted upon by an external field. You also can't place a particle at $r=0$ of another particle's $1/r^2$ electric field, because, well, there's already a particle there. (Also, how are you going to get it there, even if you could? It takes so much energy to even get close that you're leaving the realm of classical electromagnetism when you try.)






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$








    • 2




      $begingroup$
      "It takes so much energy to even get close" - unless the two particles have opposite charges and the interaction is attractive. (still, +1 from me.)
      $endgroup$
      – Emilio Pisanty
      4 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Exactly. The singularity at the position even hints that it's useless to discuss force on another particle at that point, as the position is already taken.
      $endgroup$
      – Džuris
      1 hour ago


















    3












    $begingroup$


    Isn't this kind of a paradox?




    Consider two point charges, $q_1$ and $q_2$, in the vacuum with separation vector $mathbfr_12$. Coulomb's Law for the force on charge $q_2$:



    $$mathbfF_2=q_2fracq_14piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_12=q_2mathbfE_1$$



    Thus, the force on charge $q_2$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_1$ only. Similarly,



    $$mathbfF_1=q_1fracq_24piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_21mathbfr_21=q_1mathbfE_2$$



    the force on charge $q_1$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_2$ only. This easily generalizes to $N$ point charges; the force on charge $q_n$ is the vector sum of the forces due to electric field of each of the other $N-1$ charges.



    You may (or may not) be familiar with the notion of a test charge which 'feels' the electric field due to other charges but has no significant electric field. Armed with this abstraction, one can say that the (total) electric field at a point is the force per unit charge at that point. Indeed, from the Wikipedia article Electric field




    The electric field is defined mathematically as a vector field that
    associates to each point in space the (electrostatic or Coulomb) force
    per unit of charge exerted on an infinitesimal positive test charge at
    rest at that point.




    (emphasis mine)






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      It is not correct to say that a test charge has no associated electric field. Rather, its field vanishes in proportion to the charge and in the limit is negligible in its effects. Also, the Wikipedia article is not showing awareness of all the issues.
      $endgroup$
      – Andrew Steane
      4 hours ago


















    2












    $begingroup$

    You should distinguish the interaction if a charge with another charge from its self-interaction. For the first case there is no issue. For the second case there are issues. For a classical point particle the self-interaction energy diverges, so you will have to assume a finite radius. If you assume a homogeneus spherical distribution and equate the self energy to the rest energy you find about 2.8 femtometer for an electron. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_electron_radius. However there is no experimental evidence for a finite value of the electron radius. As far as high energy physicists know it is a point particle.






    share|cite|improve this answer









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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      15












      $begingroup$

      It's true that a point particle with finite charge is problematic in electromagnetism because of the infinite field and associated energy near such a particle. However, we don't need that concept in order to make a defining statement about the electric field. Rather, we can use
      $$
      bf E = lim_r rightarrow 0 fracbf fq
      $$

      where $bf f$ is the force on a charged sphere of radius $r$ with a finite charge density $rho$ independent of $r$, and $q = (4/3) pi r^3 rho$ is the charge on the sphere. This charge $q$ will tend to zero as the radius does, and it does so sufficiently quickly that no infinities arise and everything is ok.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        15












        $begingroup$

        It's true that a point particle with finite charge is problematic in electromagnetism because of the infinite field and associated energy near such a particle. However, we don't need that concept in order to make a defining statement about the electric field. Rather, we can use
        $$
        bf E = lim_r rightarrow 0 fracbf fq
        $$

        where $bf f$ is the force on a charged sphere of radius $r$ with a finite charge density $rho$ independent of $r$, and $q = (4/3) pi r^3 rho$ is the charge on the sphere. This charge $q$ will tend to zero as the radius does, and it does so sufficiently quickly that no infinities arise and everything is ok.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          15












          15








          15





          $begingroup$

          It's true that a point particle with finite charge is problematic in electromagnetism because of the infinite field and associated energy near such a particle. However, we don't need that concept in order to make a defining statement about the electric field. Rather, we can use
          $$
          bf E = lim_r rightarrow 0 fracbf fq
          $$

          where $bf f$ is the force on a charged sphere of radius $r$ with a finite charge density $rho$ independent of $r$, and $q = (4/3) pi r^3 rho$ is the charge on the sphere. This charge $q$ will tend to zero as the radius does, and it does so sufficiently quickly that no infinities arise and everything is ok.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          It's true that a point particle with finite charge is problematic in electromagnetism because of the infinite field and associated energy near such a particle. However, we don't need that concept in order to make a defining statement about the electric field. Rather, we can use
          $$
          bf E = lim_r rightarrow 0 fracbf fq
          $$

          where $bf f$ is the force on a charged sphere of radius $r$ with a finite charge density $rho$ independent of $r$, and $q = (4/3) pi r^3 rho$ is the charge on the sphere. This charge $q$ will tend to zero as the radius does, and it does so sufficiently quickly that no infinities arise and everything is ok.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 10 hours ago









          Andrew SteaneAndrew Steane

          8,9021 gold badge11 silver badges47 bronze badges




          8,9021 gold badge11 silver badges47 bronze badges























              9












              $begingroup$

              You're forgetting one thing: a particle cannot feel its own electric field, so a point charge that generates a $1/r^2$ field doesn't do anything unless acted upon by an external field. You also can't place a particle at $r=0$ of another particle's $1/r^2$ electric field, because, well, there's already a particle there. (Also, how are you going to get it there, even if you could? It takes so much energy to even get close that you're leaving the realm of classical electromagnetism when you try.)






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$








              • 2




                $begingroup$
                "It takes so much energy to even get close" - unless the two particles have opposite charges and the interaction is attractive. (still, +1 from me.)
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Pisanty
                4 hours ago







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Exactly. The singularity at the position even hints that it's useless to discuss force on another particle at that point, as the position is already taken.
                $endgroup$
                – Džuris
                1 hour ago















              9












              $begingroup$

              You're forgetting one thing: a particle cannot feel its own electric field, so a point charge that generates a $1/r^2$ field doesn't do anything unless acted upon by an external field. You also can't place a particle at $r=0$ of another particle's $1/r^2$ electric field, because, well, there's already a particle there. (Also, how are you going to get it there, even if you could? It takes so much energy to even get close that you're leaving the realm of classical electromagnetism when you try.)






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$








              • 2




                $begingroup$
                "It takes so much energy to even get close" - unless the two particles have opposite charges and the interaction is attractive. (still, +1 from me.)
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Pisanty
                4 hours ago







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Exactly. The singularity at the position even hints that it's useless to discuss force on another particle at that point, as the position is already taken.
                $endgroup$
                – Džuris
                1 hour ago













              9












              9








              9





              $begingroup$

              You're forgetting one thing: a particle cannot feel its own electric field, so a point charge that generates a $1/r^2$ field doesn't do anything unless acted upon by an external field. You also can't place a particle at $r=0$ of another particle's $1/r^2$ electric field, because, well, there's already a particle there. (Also, how are you going to get it there, even if you could? It takes so much energy to even get close that you're leaving the realm of classical electromagnetism when you try.)






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              You're forgetting one thing: a particle cannot feel its own electric field, so a point charge that generates a $1/r^2$ field doesn't do anything unless acted upon by an external field. You also can't place a particle at $r=0$ of another particle's $1/r^2$ electric field, because, well, there's already a particle there. (Also, how are you going to get it there, even if you could? It takes so much energy to even get close that you're leaving the realm of classical electromagnetism when you try.)







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered 10 hours ago









              probably_someoneprobably_someone

              21.1k1 gold badge33 silver badges65 bronze badges




              21.1k1 gold badge33 silver badges65 bronze badges







              • 2




                $begingroup$
                "It takes so much energy to even get close" - unless the two particles have opposite charges and the interaction is attractive. (still, +1 from me.)
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Pisanty
                4 hours ago







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Exactly. The singularity at the position even hints that it's useless to discuss force on another particle at that point, as the position is already taken.
                $endgroup$
                – Džuris
                1 hour ago












              • 2




                $begingroup$
                "It takes so much energy to even get close" - unless the two particles have opposite charges and the interaction is attractive. (still, +1 from me.)
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Pisanty
                4 hours ago







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Exactly. The singularity at the position even hints that it's useless to discuss force on another particle at that point, as the position is already taken.
                $endgroup$
                – Džuris
                1 hour ago







              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              "It takes so much energy to even get close" - unless the two particles have opposite charges and the interaction is attractive. (still, +1 from me.)
              $endgroup$
              – Emilio Pisanty
              4 hours ago





              $begingroup$
              "It takes so much energy to even get close" - unless the two particles have opposite charges and the interaction is attractive. (still, +1 from me.)
              $endgroup$
              – Emilio Pisanty
              4 hours ago





              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              Exactly. The singularity at the position even hints that it's useless to discuss force on another particle at that point, as the position is already taken.
              $endgroup$
              – Džuris
              1 hour ago




              $begingroup$
              Exactly. The singularity at the position even hints that it's useless to discuss force on another particle at that point, as the position is already taken.
              $endgroup$
              – Džuris
              1 hour ago











              3












              $begingroup$


              Isn't this kind of a paradox?




              Consider two point charges, $q_1$ and $q_2$, in the vacuum with separation vector $mathbfr_12$. Coulomb's Law for the force on charge $q_2$:



              $$mathbfF_2=q_2fracq_14piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_12=q_2mathbfE_1$$



              Thus, the force on charge $q_2$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_1$ only. Similarly,



              $$mathbfF_1=q_1fracq_24piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_21mathbfr_21=q_1mathbfE_2$$



              the force on charge $q_1$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_2$ only. This easily generalizes to $N$ point charges; the force on charge $q_n$ is the vector sum of the forces due to electric field of each of the other $N-1$ charges.



              You may (or may not) be familiar with the notion of a test charge which 'feels' the electric field due to other charges but has no significant electric field. Armed with this abstraction, one can say that the (total) electric field at a point is the force per unit charge at that point. Indeed, from the Wikipedia article Electric field




              The electric field is defined mathematically as a vector field that
              associates to each point in space the (electrostatic or Coulomb) force
              per unit of charge exerted on an infinitesimal positive test charge at
              rest at that point.




              (emphasis mine)






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                It is not correct to say that a test charge has no associated electric field. Rather, its field vanishes in proportion to the charge and in the limit is negligible in its effects. Also, the Wikipedia article is not showing awareness of all the issues.
                $endgroup$
                – Andrew Steane
                4 hours ago















              3












              $begingroup$


              Isn't this kind of a paradox?




              Consider two point charges, $q_1$ and $q_2$, in the vacuum with separation vector $mathbfr_12$. Coulomb's Law for the force on charge $q_2$:



              $$mathbfF_2=q_2fracq_14piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_12=q_2mathbfE_1$$



              Thus, the force on charge $q_2$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_1$ only. Similarly,



              $$mathbfF_1=q_1fracq_24piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_21mathbfr_21=q_1mathbfE_2$$



              the force on charge $q_1$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_2$ only. This easily generalizes to $N$ point charges; the force on charge $q_n$ is the vector sum of the forces due to electric field of each of the other $N-1$ charges.



              You may (or may not) be familiar with the notion of a test charge which 'feels' the electric field due to other charges but has no significant electric field. Armed with this abstraction, one can say that the (total) electric field at a point is the force per unit charge at that point. Indeed, from the Wikipedia article Electric field




              The electric field is defined mathematically as a vector field that
              associates to each point in space the (electrostatic or Coulomb) force
              per unit of charge exerted on an infinitesimal positive test charge at
              rest at that point.




              (emphasis mine)






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                It is not correct to say that a test charge has no associated electric field. Rather, its field vanishes in proportion to the charge and in the limit is negligible in its effects. Also, the Wikipedia article is not showing awareness of all the issues.
                $endgroup$
                – Andrew Steane
                4 hours ago













              3












              3








              3





              $begingroup$


              Isn't this kind of a paradox?




              Consider two point charges, $q_1$ and $q_2$, in the vacuum with separation vector $mathbfr_12$. Coulomb's Law for the force on charge $q_2$:



              $$mathbfF_2=q_2fracq_14piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_12=q_2mathbfE_1$$



              Thus, the force on charge $q_2$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_1$ only. Similarly,



              $$mathbfF_1=q_1fracq_24piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_21mathbfr_21=q_1mathbfE_2$$



              the force on charge $q_1$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_2$ only. This easily generalizes to $N$ point charges; the force on charge $q_n$ is the vector sum of the forces due to electric field of each of the other $N-1$ charges.



              You may (or may not) be familiar with the notion of a test charge which 'feels' the electric field due to other charges but has no significant electric field. Armed with this abstraction, one can say that the (total) electric field at a point is the force per unit charge at that point. Indeed, from the Wikipedia article Electric field




              The electric field is defined mathematically as a vector field that
              associates to each point in space the (electrostatic or Coulomb) force
              per unit of charge exerted on an infinitesimal positive test charge at
              rest at that point.




              (emphasis mine)






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$




              Isn't this kind of a paradox?




              Consider two point charges, $q_1$ and $q_2$, in the vacuum with separation vector $mathbfr_12$. Coulomb's Law for the force on charge $q_2$:



              $$mathbfF_2=q_2fracq_14piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_12=q_2mathbfE_1$$



              Thus, the force on charge $q_2$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_1$ only. Similarly,



              $$mathbfF_1=q_1fracq_24piepsilon_0frachatmathbfr_21mathbfr_21=q_1mathbfE_2$$



              the force on charge $q_1$ is due to the electric field of charge $q_2$ only. This easily generalizes to $N$ point charges; the force on charge $q_n$ is the vector sum of the forces due to electric field of each of the other $N-1$ charges.



              You may (or may not) be familiar with the notion of a test charge which 'feels' the electric field due to other charges but has no significant electric field. Armed with this abstraction, one can say that the (total) electric field at a point is the force per unit charge at that point. Indeed, from the Wikipedia article Electric field




              The electric field is defined mathematically as a vector field that
              associates to each point in space the (electrostatic or Coulomb) force
              per unit of charge exerted on an infinitesimal positive test charge at
              rest at that point.




              (emphasis mine)







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited 4 hours ago

























              answered 9 hours ago









              Hal HollisHal Hollis

              1,6293 silver badges10 bronze badges




              1,6293 silver badges10 bronze badges







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                It is not correct to say that a test charge has no associated electric field. Rather, its field vanishes in proportion to the charge and in the limit is negligible in its effects. Also, the Wikipedia article is not showing awareness of all the issues.
                $endgroup$
                – Andrew Steane
                4 hours ago












              • 1




                $begingroup$
                It is not correct to say that a test charge has no associated electric field. Rather, its field vanishes in proportion to the charge and in the limit is negligible in its effects. Also, the Wikipedia article is not showing awareness of all the issues.
                $endgroup$
                – Andrew Steane
                4 hours ago







              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              It is not correct to say that a test charge has no associated electric field. Rather, its field vanishes in proportion to the charge and in the limit is negligible in its effects. Also, the Wikipedia article is not showing awareness of all the issues.
              $endgroup$
              – Andrew Steane
              4 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              It is not correct to say that a test charge has no associated electric field. Rather, its field vanishes in proportion to the charge and in the limit is negligible in its effects. Also, the Wikipedia article is not showing awareness of all the issues.
              $endgroup$
              – Andrew Steane
              4 hours ago











              2












              $begingroup$

              You should distinguish the interaction if a charge with another charge from its self-interaction. For the first case there is no issue. For the second case there are issues. For a classical point particle the self-interaction energy diverges, so you will have to assume a finite radius. If you assume a homogeneus spherical distribution and equate the self energy to the rest energy you find about 2.8 femtometer for an electron. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_electron_radius. However there is no experimental evidence for a finite value of the electron radius. As far as high energy physicists know it is a point particle.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                2












                $begingroup$

                You should distinguish the interaction if a charge with another charge from its self-interaction. For the first case there is no issue. For the second case there are issues. For a classical point particle the self-interaction energy diverges, so you will have to assume a finite radius. If you assume a homogeneus spherical distribution and equate the self energy to the rest energy you find about 2.8 femtometer for an electron. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_electron_radius. However there is no experimental evidence for a finite value of the electron radius. As far as high energy physicists know it is a point particle.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  You should distinguish the interaction if a charge with another charge from its self-interaction. For the first case there is no issue. For the second case there are issues. For a classical point particle the self-interaction energy diverges, so you will have to assume a finite radius. If you assume a homogeneus spherical distribution and equate the self energy to the rest energy you find about 2.8 femtometer for an electron. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_electron_radius. However there is no experimental evidence for a finite value of the electron radius. As far as high energy physicists know it is a point particle.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  You should distinguish the interaction if a charge with another charge from its self-interaction. For the first case there is no issue. For the second case there are issues. For a classical point particle the self-interaction energy diverges, so you will have to assume a finite radius. If you assume a homogeneus spherical distribution and equate the self energy to the rest energy you find about 2.8 femtometer for an electron. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_electron_radius. However there is no experimental evidence for a finite value of the electron radius. As far as high energy physicists know it is a point particle.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 9 hours ago









                  my2ctsmy2cts

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