Do interval ratios take overtones into account or solely the fundamental frequency?Lower interval limitsWhy Is Just Intonation Impractical?How often does each interval appear in the harmonic series (relative to the fundamental)?How does the harmonic series affect consonance?What is virtual pitch?How do I figure out the fundamental frequency of a sound from its frequency spectrum?Simple ratios or Overtones?How do ratios work within the harmonic series?Harmonic series role in a just intonation interval ranking?
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Do interval ratios take overtones into account or solely the fundamental frequency?
Lower interval limitsWhy Is Just Intonation Impractical?How often does each interval appear in the harmonic series (relative to the fundamental)?How does the harmonic series affect consonance?What is virtual pitch?How do I figure out the fundamental frequency of a sound from its frequency spectrum?Simple ratios or Overtones?How do ratios work within the harmonic series?Harmonic series role in a just intonation interval ranking?
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An interval holds two pitches (C an G). Those two pitches have a fundamental frequency which represents their pitch names, along with their harmonic series/overtones.
When we turn that interval into a ratio (2:3) which demonstrates that intervals level of consonance from the two pitches wave cycle synchronicity, does that ratio account for the two pitches harmonic series also or just the fundamental?
If the ratio just accounts for the fundamental frequency, is that sufficient enough to establish two pitches wave relationships without taking into account their overtone relationships also?
Thank you.
intervals acoustics harmonics
|
show 6 more comments
An interval holds two pitches (C an G). Those two pitches have a fundamental frequency which represents their pitch names, along with their harmonic series/overtones.
When we turn that interval into a ratio (2:3) which demonstrates that intervals level of consonance from the two pitches wave cycle synchronicity, does that ratio account for the two pitches harmonic series also or just the fundamental?
If the ratio just accounts for the fundamental frequency, is that sufficient enough to establish two pitches wave relationships without taking into account their overtone relationships also?
Thank you.
intervals acoustics harmonics
1
I think the original Just ratios are taken to be from the harmonic series. The harmonics present will depend on the situation so it's hard to say whether their existence should matter when defining an interval.
– ggcg
8 hours ago
1
If the ratio between G and C is 3:2, then the ratio between their n-th harmonic is also 3:2, at least theoretically; in practice, some instruments (e.g. guitar, piano, harp, pizzicato strings) have harmonics that aren't precise multiples of the fundamental frequency.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
1
@Seery, not really. The ratio refers to the relative fundamental but historically those were chosen based on the harmonics of your tonic to emphasize sympathetic resonance.
– ggcg
7 hours ago
1
This is an interesting question! What do we hear when we play the 1st inversion of a major C chord? CGCEGBb... ? Above the Bass tone E we will hear BE... (the overtones of E! Is this the reason why doubling the 3rd is not opportun? Or is this the reason why I think your approach might be a wood path? Don‘t give up searching. Maybe you will reach the goal before others!
– Albrecht Hügli
7 hours ago
1
@Seery n = any integer. If e.g. E is 330Hz and A is 220Hz and their ratio is 3:2, then e.g. their 17th harmonics are 5610Hz and 3740Hz, which are also 3:2.
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
An interval holds two pitches (C an G). Those two pitches have a fundamental frequency which represents their pitch names, along with their harmonic series/overtones.
When we turn that interval into a ratio (2:3) which demonstrates that intervals level of consonance from the two pitches wave cycle synchronicity, does that ratio account for the two pitches harmonic series also or just the fundamental?
If the ratio just accounts for the fundamental frequency, is that sufficient enough to establish two pitches wave relationships without taking into account their overtone relationships also?
Thank you.
intervals acoustics harmonics
An interval holds two pitches (C an G). Those two pitches have a fundamental frequency which represents their pitch names, along with their harmonic series/overtones.
When we turn that interval into a ratio (2:3) which demonstrates that intervals level of consonance from the two pitches wave cycle synchronicity, does that ratio account for the two pitches harmonic series also or just the fundamental?
If the ratio just accounts for the fundamental frequency, is that sufficient enough to establish two pitches wave relationships without taking into account their overtone relationships also?
Thank you.
intervals acoustics harmonics
intervals acoustics harmonics
edited 7 hours ago
Your Uncle Bob
3,1922 gold badges11 silver badges29 bronze badges
3,1922 gold badges11 silver badges29 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
SeerySeery
3981 silver badge10 bronze badges
3981 silver badge10 bronze badges
1
I think the original Just ratios are taken to be from the harmonic series. The harmonics present will depend on the situation so it's hard to say whether their existence should matter when defining an interval.
– ggcg
8 hours ago
1
If the ratio between G and C is 3:2, then the ratio between their n-th harmonic is also 3:2, at least theoretically; in practice, some instruments (e.g. guitar, piano, harp, pizzicato strings) have harmonics that aren't precise multiples of the fundamental frequency.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
1
@Seery, not really. The ratio refers to the relative fundamental but historically those were chosen based on the harmonics of your tonic to emphasize sympathetic resonance.
– ggcg
7 hours ago
1
This is an interesting question! What do we hear when we play the 1st inversion of a major C chord? CGCEGBb... ? Above the Bass tone E we will hear BE... (the overtones of E! Is this the reason why doubling the 3rd is not opportun? Or is this the reason why I think your approach might be a wood path? Don‘t give up searching. Maybe you will reach the goal before others!
– Albrecht Hügli
7 hours ago
1
@Seery n = any integer. If e.g. E is 330Hz and A is 220Hz and their ratio is 3:2, then e.g. their 17th harmonics are 5610Hz and 3740Hz, which are also 3:2.
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
1
I think the original Just ratios are taken to be from the harmonic series. The harmonics present will depend on the situation so it's hard to say whether their existence should matter when defining an interval.
– ggcg
8 hours ago
1
If the ratio between G and C is 3:2, then the ratio between their n-th harmonic is also 3:2, at least theoretically; in practice, some instruments (e.g. guitar, piano, harp, pizzicato strings) have harmonics that aren't precise multiples of the fundamental frequency.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
1
@Seery, not really. The ratio refers to the relative fundamental but historically those were chosen based on the harmonics of your tonic to emphasize sympathetic resonance.
– ggcg
7 hours ago
1
This is an interesting question! What do we hear when we play the 1st inversion of a major C chord? CGCEGBb... ? Above the Bass tone E we will hear BE... (the overtones of E! Is this the reason why doubling the 3rd is not opportun? Or is this the reason why I think your approach might be a wood path? Don‘t give up searching. Maybe you will reach the goal before others!
– Albrecht Hügli
7 hours ago
1
@Seery n = any integer. If e.g. E is 330Hz and A is 220Hz and their ratio is 3:2, then e.g. their 17th harmonics are 5610Hz and 3740Hz, which are also 3:2.
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
1
1
I think the original Just ratios are taken to be from the harmonic series. The harmonics present will depend on the situation so it's hard to say whether their existence should matter when defining an interval.
– ggcg
8 hours ago
I think the original Just ratios are taken to be from the harmonic series. The harmonics present will depend on the situation so it's hard to say whether their existence should matter when defining an interval.
– ggcg
8 hours ago
1
1
If the ratio between G and C is 3:2, then the ratio between their n-th harmonic is also 3:2, at least theoretically; in practice, some instruments (e.g. guitar, piano, harp, pizzicato strings) have harmonics that aren't precise multiples of the fundamental frequency.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
If the ratio between G and C is 3:2, then the ratio between their n-th harmonic is also 3:2, at least theoretically; in practice, some instruments (e.g. guitar, piano, harp, pizzicato strings) have harmonics that aren't precise multiples of the fundamental frequency.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
1
1
@Seery, not really. The ratio refers to the relative fundamental but historically those were chosen based on the harmonics of your tonic to emphasize sympathetic resonance.
– ggcg
7 hours ago
@Seery, not really. The ratio refers to the relative fundamental but historically those were chosen based on the harmonics of your tonic to emphasize sympathetic resonance.
– ggcg
7 hours ago
1
1
This is an interesting question! What do we hear when we play the 1st inversion of a major C chord? CGCEGBb... ? Above the Bass tone E we will hear BE... (the overtones of E! Is this the reason why doubling the 3rd is not opportun? Or is this the reason why I think your approach might be a wood path? Don‘t give up searching. Maybe you will reach the goal before others!
– Albrecht Hügli
7 hours ago
This is an interesting question! What do we hear when we play the 1st inversion of a major C chord? CGCEGBb... ? Above the Bass tone E we will hear BE... (the overtones of E! Is this the reason why doubling the 3rd is not opportun? Or is this the reason why I think your approach might be a wood path? Don‘t give up searching. Maybe you will reach the goal before others!
– Albrecht Hügli
7 hours ago
1
1
@Seery n = any integer. If e.g. E is 330Hz and A is 220Hz and their ratio is 3:2, then e.g. their 17th harmonics are 5610Hz and 3740Hz, which are also 3:2.
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
@Seery n = any integer. If e.g. E is 330Hz and A is 220Hz and their ratio is 3:2, then e.g. their 17th harmonics are 5610Hz and 3740Hz, which are also 3:2.
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
When we say that the pitch ratio between notes is 2:3, that ratio only expresses the ratio of the fundamental frequencies. However, there will of course be lots of other ratios between the harmonics of those notes which may be relevant to the perceived consonance.
Let's consider two notes each with 3 partials:
one note has a fundamental at 100Hz, and harmonics 200Hz, 300Hz
the other note has a fundamental at 150Hz, and harmonics at 300Hz, and 450Hz.
This would mean that there are actually a number of ratios going on there:
100:200 (=1:2)
100:300 (=1:3)
100:150 (=2:3)
100:450 (=2:9)
200:300 (=2:3)
200:150 (=4:3)
200:450 (=4:9)
300:150 (=2:1)
300:300 (=1:1)
300:450 (=2:3)
150:300 (=1:2)
150:450 (=1:3)
300:450 (=2:3)
Have I missed any out? anyway, you can see that even with just 3 partials in each sound, there are a whole bunch of ratios that contribute to the overall level of consonance. Imagine how many more ratios there are in a sound with more harmonics.
Great explanation. Thank you topo!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
It is fundamentals only. Apart from the mathematical problem (how to reduce a long series of overtone coefficients into a simple ratio) just the fundamental is accessible to normal tuning. The harmonics are called tone color since they are specific to an instrument. Even for piano a different octave will exhibit different overtones.
Very good response guidot. Simply and effectively explained, thank you.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
I believe it's usually just the fundamentals, because how far in the overtone series would you be willing to go to analyse each pitch or interval set? Depending on the timbre of the sound, or the room you're in, certain overtones might resonate, and others might not. This is acoustically, though. In electronic music, you may have other ways of measuring and analyzing these things.
New contributor
But the fundamental frequency is in itself the first harmonic in the series,so would it not be useless to ignore all the others that absolutely do play a role in how consonant two pitches are?
– Seery
7 hours ago
1
@Seery We do take into account the other overtones. They are why there is a "lower interval limit". music.stackexchange.com/questions/77173/lower-interval-limits
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
I've understood this question i asked with your comment below my post. Thanks again Bob.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
I'll make this an answer, because you can't embed a picture in a comment.
There are two notes, with six partials each, a total of 12 separately sounding partials, many frequency pairs. Clearly only some of the frequency pairs have a 2:3 ratio.
Many thanks for clearing this up!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals.
The spectrum of overtones of a note depends not only on the fundamental but also on the instrument being played. Flutes have very little sound energy in their overtones; they are about as close as one can get to a pure sine wave with orchestral instruments. Clarinets lack even numbered intervals (clarinets have no octave key; it's a twelvth key.) (Because of irregularities, the clarinet does produce some even overtones.
A piano is so tightly strung (not to meant pianists), their overtones are generally sharper that the overtone series would indicate.
Taking overtones into account would complicate things without explaining much. However, Helmholtz did discuss dissonance with respect to overtones of intervals but didn't really explain things fully.
"It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals." This seems to be the general answer. I'm aware of instruments having different amplitudes in their overtones. Your writing on it was interesting to read, thank you!
– Seery
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
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When we say that the pitch ratio between notes is 2:3, that ratio only expresses the ratio of the fundamental frequencies. However, there will of course be lots of other ratios between the harmonics of those notes which may be relevant to the perceived consonance.
Let's consider two notes each with 3 partials:
one note has a fundamental at 100Hz, and harmonics 200Hz, 300Hz
the other note has a fundamental at 150Hz, and harmonics at 300Hz, and 450Hz.
This would mean that there are actually a number of ratios going on there:
100:200 (=1:2)
100:300 (=1:3)
100:150 (=2:3)
100:450 (=2:9)
200:300 (=2:3)
200:150 (=4:3)
200:450 (=4:9)
300:150 (=2:1)
300:300 (=1:1)
300:450 (=2:3)
150:300 (=1:2)
150:450 (=1:3)
300:450 (=2:3)
Have I missed any out? anyway, you can see that even with just 3 partials in each sound, there are a whole bunch of ratios that contribute to the overall level of consonance. Imagine how many more ratios there are in a sound with more harmonics.
Great explanation. Thank you topo!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
When we say that the pitch ratio between notes is 2:3, that ratio only expresses the ratio of the fundamental frequencies. However, there will of course be lots of other ratios between the harmonics of those notes which may be relevant to the perceived consonance.
Let's consider two notes each with 3 partials:
one note has a fundamental at 100Hz, and harmonics 200Hz, 300Hz
the other note has a fundamental at 150Hz, and harmonics at 300Hz, and 450Hz.
This would mean that there are actually a number of ratios going on there:
100:200 (=1:2)
100:300 (=1:3)
100:150 (=2:3)
100:450 (=2:9)
200:300 (=2:3)
200:150 (=4:3)
200:450 (=4:9)
300:150 (=2:1)
300:300 (=1:1)
300:450 (=2:3)
150:300 (=1:2)
150:450 (=1:3)
300:450 (=2:3)
Have I missed any out? anyway, you can see that even with just 3 partials in each sound, there are a whole bunch of ratios that contribute to the overall level of consonance. Imagine how many more ratios there are in a sound with more harmonics.
Great explanation. Thank you topo!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
When we say that the pitch ratio between notes is 2:3, that ratio only expresses the ratio of the fundamental frequencies. However, there will of course be lots of other ratios between the harmonics of those notes which may be relevant to the perceived consonance.
Let's consider two notes each with 3 partials:
one note has a fundamental at 100Hz, and harmonics 200Hz, 300Hz
the other note has a fundamental at 150Hz, and harmonics at 300Hz, and 450Hz.
This would mean that there are actually a number of ratios going on there:
100:200 (=1:2)
100:300 (=1:3)
100:150 (=2:3)
100:450 (=2:9)
200:300 (=2:3)
200:150 (=4:3)
200:450 (=4:9)
300:150 (=2:1)
300:300 (=1:1)
300:450 (=2:3)
150:300 (=1:2)
150:450 (=1:3)
300:450 (=2:3)
Have I missed any out? anyway, you can see that even with just 3 partials in each sound, there are a whole bunch of ratios that contribute to the overall level of consonance. Imagine how many more ratios there are in a sound with more harmonics.
When we say that the pitch ratio between notes is 2:3, that ratio only expresses the ratio of the fundamental frequencies. However, there will of course be lots of other ratios between the harmonics of those notes which may be relevant to the perceived consonance.
Let's consider two notes each with 3 partials:
one note has a fundamental at 100Hz, and harmonics 200Hz, 300Hz
the other note has a fundamental at 150Hz, and harmonics at 300Hz, and 450Hz.
This would mean that there are actually a number of ratios going on there:
100:200 (=1:2)
100:300 (=1:3)
100:150 (=2:3)
100:450 (=2:9)
200:300 (=2:3)
200:150 (=4:3)
200:450 (=4:9)
300:150 (=2:1)
300:300 (=1:1)
300:450 (=2:3)
150:300 (=1:2)
150:450 (=1:3)
300:450 (=2:3)
Have I missed any out? anyway, you can see that even with just 3 partials in each sound, there are a whole bunch of ratios that contribute to the overall level of consonance. Imagine how many more ratios there are in a sound with more harmonics.
answered 7 hours ago
topo mortotopo morto
34.5k2 gold badges54 silver badges130 bronze badges
34.5k2 gold badges54 silver badges130 bronze badges
Great explanation. Thank you topo!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
Great explanation. Thank you topo!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
Great explanation. Thank you topo!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
Great explanation. Thank you topo!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
It is fundamentals only. Apart from the mathematical problem (how to reduce a long series of overtone coefficients into a simple ratio) just the fundamental is accessible to normal tuning. The harmonics are called tone color since they are specific to an instrument. Even for piano a different octave will exhibit different overtones.
Very good response guidot. Simply and effectively explained, thank you.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
It is fundamentals only. Apart from the mathematical problem (how to reduce a long series of overtone coefficients into a simple ratio) just the fundamental is accessible to normal tuning. The harmonics are called tone color since they are specific to an instrument. Even for piano a different octave will exhibit different overtones.
Very good response guidot. Simply and effectively explained, thank you.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
It is fundamentals only. Apart from the mathematical problem (how to reduce a long series of overtone coefficients into a simple ratio) just the fundamental is accessible to normal tuning. The harmonics are called tone color since they are specific to an instrument. Even for piano a different octave will exhibit different overtones.
It is fundamentals only. Apart from the mathematical problem (how to reduce a long series of overtone coefficients into a simple ratio) just the fundamental is accessible to normal tuning. The harmonics are called tone color since they are specific to an instrument. Even for piano a different octave will exhibit different overtones.
answered 7 hours ago
guidotguidot
6,26512 silver badges35 bronze badges
6,26512 silver badges35 bronze badges
Very good response guidot. Simply and effectively explained, thank you.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
Very good response guidot. Simply and effectively explained, thank you.
– Seery
6 hours ago
Very good response guidot. Simply and effectively explained, thank you.
– Seery
6 hours ago
Very good response guidot. Simply and effectively explained, thank you.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
I believe it's usually just the fundamentals, because how far in the overtone series would you be willing to go to analyse each pitch or interval set? Depending on the timbre of the sound, or the room you're in, certain overtones might resonate, and others might not. This is acoustically, though. In electronic music, you may have other ways of measuring and analyzing these things.
New contributor
But the fundamental frequency is in itself the first harmonic in the series,so would it not be useless to ignore all the others that absolutely do play a role in how consonant two pitches are?
– Seery
7 hours ago
1
@Seery We do take into account the other overtones. They are why there is a "lower interval limit". music.stackexchange.com/questions/77173/lower-interval-limits
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
I've understood this question i asked with your comment below my post. Thanks again Bob.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
I believe it's usually just the fundamentals, because how far in the overtone series would you be willing to go to analyse each pitch or interval set? Depending on the timbre of the sound, or the room you're in, certain overtones might resonate, and others might not. This is acoustically, though. In electronic music, you may have other ways of measuring and analyzing these things.
New contributor
But the fundamental frequency is in itself the first harmonic in the series,so would it not be useless to ignore all the others that absolutely do play a role in how consonant two pitches are?
– Seery
7 hours ago
1
@Seery We do take into account the other overtones. They are why there is a "lower interval limit". music.stackexchange.com/questions/77173/lower-interval-limits
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
I've understood this question i asked with your comment below my post. Thanks again Bob.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
I believe it's usually just the fundamentals, because how far in the overtone series would you be willing to go to analyse each pitch or interval set? Depending on the timbre of the sound, or the room you're in, certain overtones might resonate, and others might not. This is acoustically, though. In electronic music, you may have other ways of measuring and analyzing these things.
New contributor
I believe it's usually just the fundamentals, because how far in the overtone series would you be willing to go to analyse each pitch or interval set? Depending on the timbre of the sound, or the room you're in, certain overtones might resonate, and others might not. This is acoustically, though. In electronic music, you may have other ways of measuring and analyzing these things.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 8 hours ago
SnarethedrummerSnarethedrummer
212 bronze badges
212 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
But the fundamental frequency is in itself the first harmonic in the series,so would it not be useless to ignore all the others that absolutely do play a role in how consonant two pitches are?
– Seery
7 hours ago
1
@Seery We do take into account the other overtones. They are why there is a "lower interval limit". music.stackexchange.com/questions/77173/lower-interval-limits
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
I've understood this question i asked with your comment below my post. Thanks again Bob.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
But the fundamental frequency is in itself the first harmonic in the series,so would it not be useless to ignore all the others that absolutely do play a role in how consonant two pitches are?
– Seery
7 hours ago
1
@Seery We do take into account the other overtones. They are why there is a "lower interval limit". music.stackexchange.com/questions/77173/lower-interval-limits
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
I've understood this question i asked with your comment below my post. Thanks again Bob.
– Seery
6 hours ago
But the fundamental frequency is in itself the first harmonic in the series,so would it not be useless to ignore all the others that absolutely do play a role in how consonant two pitches are?
– Seery
7 hours ago
But the fundamental frequency is in itself the first harmonic in the series,so would it not be useless to ignore all the others that absolutely do play a role in how consonant two pitches are?
– Seery
7 hours ago
1
1
@Seery We do take into account the other overtones. They are why there is a "lower interval limit". music.stackexchange.com/questions/77173/lower-interval-limits
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
@Seery We do take into account the other overtones. They are why there is a "lower interval limit". music.stackexchange.com/questions/77173/lower-interval-limits
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago
I've understood this question i asked with your comment below my post. Thanks again Bob.
– Seery
6 hours ago
I've understood this question i asked with your comment below my post. Thanks again Bob.
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
I'll make this an answer, because you can't embed a picture in a comment.
There are two notes, with six partials each, a total of 12 separately sounding partials, many frequency pairs. Clearly only some of the frequency pairs have a 2:3 ratio.
Many thanks for clearing this up!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
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I'll make this an answer, because you can't embed a picture in a comment.
There are two notes, with six partials each, a total of 12 separately sounding partials, many frequency pairs. Clearly only some of the frequency pairs have a 2:3 ratio.
Many thanks for clearing this up!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
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I'll make this an answer, because you can't embed a picture in a comment.
There are two notes, with six partials each, a total of 12 separately sounding partials, many frequency pairs. Clearly only some of the frequency pairs have a 2:3 ratio.
I'll make this an answer, because you can't embed a picture in a comment.
There are two notes, with six partials each, a total of 12 separately sounding partials, many frequency pairs. Clearly only some of the frequency pairs have a 2:3 ratio.
answered 6 hours ago
piiperipiiperi
5,4251 gold badge7 silver badges22 bronze badges
5,4251 gold badge7 silver badges22 bronze badges
Many thanks for clearing this up!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
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Many thanks for clearing this up!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
Many thanks for clearing this up!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
Many thanks for clearing this up!!
– Seery
6 hours ago
add a comment
|
It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals.
The spectrum of overtones of a note depends not only on the fundamental but also on the instrument being played. Flutes have very little sound energy in their overtones; they are about as close as one can get to a pure sine wave with orchestral instruments. Clarinets lack even numbered intervals (clarinets have no octave key; it's a twelvth key.) (Because of irregularities, the clarinet does produce some even overtones.
A piano is so tightly strung (not to meant pianists), their overtones are generally sharper that the overtone series would indicate.
Taking overtones into account would complicate things without explaining much. However, Helmholtz did discuss dissonance with respect to overtones of intervals but didn't really explain things fully.
"It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals." This seems to be the general answer. I'm aware of instruments having different amplitudes in their overtones. Your writing on it was interesting to read, thank you!
– Seery
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals.
The spectrum of overtones of a note depends not only on the fundamental but also on the instrument being played. Flutes have very little sound energy in their overtones; they are about as close as one can get to a pure sine wave with orchestral instruments. Clarinets lack even numbered intervals (clarinets have no octave key; it's a twelvth key.) (Because of irregularities, the clarinet does produce some even overtones.
A piano is so tightly strung (not to meant pianists), their overtones are generally sharper that the overtone series would indicate.
Taking overtones into account would complicate things without explaining much. However, Helmholtz did discuss dissonance with respect to overtones of intervals but didn't really explain things fully.
"It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals." This seems to be the general answer. I'm aware of instruments having different amplitudes in their overtones. Your writing on it was interesting to read, thank you!
– Seery
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals.
The spectrum of overtones of a note depends not only on the fundamental but also on the instrument being played. Flutes have very little sound energy in their overtones; they are about as close as one can get to a pure sine wave with orchestral instruments. Clarinets lack even numbered intervals (clarinets have no octave key; it's a twelvth key.) (Because of irregularities, the clarinet does produce some even overtones.
A piano is so tightly strung (not to meant pianists), their overtones are generally sharper that the overtone series would indicate.
Taking overtones into account would complicate things without explaining much. However, Helmholtz did discuss dissonance with respect to overtones of intervals but didn't really explain things fully.
It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals.
The spectrum of overtones of a note depends not only on the fundamental but also on the instrument being played. Flutes have very little sound energy in their overtones; they are about as close as one can get to a pure sine wave with orchestral instruments. Clarinets lack even numbered intervals (clarinets have no octave key; it's a twelvth key.) (Because of irregularities, the clarinet does produce some even overtones.
A piano is so tightly strung (not to meant pianists), their overtones are generally sharper that the overtone series would indicate.
Taking overtones into account would complicate things without explaining much. However, Helmholtz did discuss dissonance with respect to overtones of intervals but didn't really explain things fully.
answered 4 hours ago
ttwttw
11.2k11 silver badges39 bronze badges
11.2k11 silver badges39 bronze badges
"It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals." This seems to be the general answer. I'm aware of instruments having different amplitudes in their overtones. Your writing on it was interesting to read, thank you!
– Seery
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
"It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals." This seems to be the general answer. I'm aware of instruments having different amplitudes in their overtones. Your writing on it was interesting to read, thank you!
– Seery
4 hours ago
"It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals." This seems to be the general answer. I'm aware of instruments having different amplitudes in their overtones. Your writing on it was interesting to read, thank you!
– Seery
4 hours ago
"It's only the ratio between fundamentals. Of course, corresponding harmonics have the same ratio as their fundamentals." This seems to be the general answer. I'm aware of instruments having different amplitudes in their overtones. Your writing on it was interesting to read, thank you!
– Seery
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
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1
I think the original Just ratios are taken to be from the harmonic series. The harmonics present will depend on the situation so it's hard to say whether their existence should matter when defining an interval.
– ggcg
8 hours ago
1
If the ratio between G and C is 3:2, then the ratio between their n-th harmonic is also 3:2, at least theoretically; in practice, some instruments (e.g. guitar, piano, harp, pizzicato strings) have harmonics that aren't precise multiples of the fundamental frequency.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
1
@Seery, not really. The ratio refers to the relative fundamental but historically those were chosen based on the harmonics of your tonic to emphasize sympathetic resonance.
– ggcg
7 hours ago
1
This is an interesting question! What do we hear when we play the 1st inversion of a major C chord? CGCEGBb... ? Above the Bass tone E we will hear BE... (the overtones of E! Is this the reason why doubling the 3rd is not opportun? Or is this the reason why I think your approach might be a wood path? Don‘t give up searching. Maybe you will reach the goal before others!
– Albrecht Hügli
7 hours ago
1
@Seery n = any integer. If e.g. E is 330Hz and A is 220Hz and their ratio is 3:2, then e.g. their 17th harmonics are 5610Hz and 3740Hz, which are also 3:2.
– Your Uncle Bob
7 hours ago