Bad guy wins in my book seriesPlot twist where the antagonist winsStandalone book, followed by seriesKilling the protagonist - should it be done?How to avoid the 'magic explanation' info dump in Fantasy novelsHow can I Switch Protagonists Between Books?Plot and characters conflict too muchHow to avoid the villain being a caricatureCharacter motivations facing death?Does it really serve a main character to give them one driving want?How do you earn the reader's trust?Plot twist where the antagonist wins

Does a Hand Crossbow with the Repeating Shot Infusion still require a Free Hand to use?

What will happen if I checked in for another room in the same hotel, but not for the booked one?

Closest Proximity of Oceans to Freshwater Springs

Why would anyone even use a Portkey?

Comment traduire « That screams X »

I hit a pipe with a mower and now it won't turn

Can a stressful Wish's Strength reduction be cured early by a Greater Restoration spell?

Do home values typically rise and fall at a consistent percent?

Can European countries bypass the EU and make their own individual trade deal with the U.S.?

I need help with pasta

How did they film the Invisible Man being invisible, in 1933?

What verb for taking advantage fits in "I don't want to ________ on the friendship"?

How to securely dispose of a smartphone?

Word ending in "-ine" for rat-like

Which is better for keeping data: primary partition or logical partition?

Why is Japan trying to have a better relationship with Iran?

Using “ser” without "un/una"?

If two black hole event horizons overlap (touch) can they ever separate again?

The warming up game

Thin wall to block LED light from hitting photodiode?

"sort -nu" on uuids

Why were the first airplanes "backwards"?

My colleague is constantly blaming me for his errors

Have any large aeroplanes been landed - safely and without damage - in locations that they could not be flown away from?



Bad guy wins in my book series


Plot twist where the antagonist winsStandalone book, followed by seriesKilling the protagonist - should it be done?How to avoid the 'magic explanation' info dump in Fantasy novelsHow can I Switch Protagonists Between Books?Plot and characters conflict too muchHow to avoid the villain being a caricatureCharacter motivations facing death?Does it really serve a main character to give them one driving want?How do you earn the reader's trust?Plot twist where the antagonist wins






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








2















I have a five book series and I have plotted them all out. The main bad guy wins in the end. My problem with this is my girlfriend keeps telling me that bad guys winning will make readers upset that they invested in the heroes only for them to die or lose. So now I am second guessing the entire series.



Do you guys think that it would be ok for a bad guy to win in the end?










share|improve this question
























  • I think this question is Primarily Opinion-Based as written. Perhaps you could ask what the likely reaction would be for a reader to find that the "bad guy" wins, or whether there are any best practices in presenting this to the reader without making the story too depressing.

    – Robert Columbia
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    So your genre is which: Horror or Tragedy?

    – wetcircuit
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    its more Sci-fi than anything else.

    – icefire
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    Even in many classic tragedies, it's not so much that the "bad guy" wins but that the "good guys" lose. In some cases (cough)>Shakespeare(/cough), this ends in a literal pile of bodies.

    – Robert Columbia
    8 hours ago







  • 3





    So you have an evil protagonist.

    – wetcircuit
    8 hours ago


















2















I have a five book series and I have plotted them all out. The main bad guy wins in the end. My problem with this is my girlfriend keeps telling me that bad guys winning will make readers upset that they invested in the heroes only for them to die or lose. So now I am second guessing the entire series.



Do you guys think that it would be ok for a bad guy to win in the end?










share|improve this question
























  • I think this question is Primarily Opinion-Based as written. Perhaps you could ask what the likely reaction would be for a reader to find that the "bad guy" wins, or whether there are any best practices in presenting this to the reader without making the story too depressing.

    – Robert Columbia
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    So your genre is which: Horror or Tragedy?

    – wetcircuit
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    its more Sci-fi than anything else.

    – icefire
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    Even in many classic tragedies, it's not so much that the "bad guy" wins but that the "good guys" lose. In some cases (cough)>Shakespeare(/cough), this ends in a literal pile of bodies.

    – Robert Columbia
    8 hours ago







  • 3





    So you have an evil protagonist.

    – wetcircuit
    8 hours ago














2












2








2








I have a five book series and I have plotted them all out. The main bad guy wins in the end. My problem with this is my girlfriend keeps telling me that bad guys winning will make readers upset that they invested in the heroes only for them to die or lose. So now I am second guessing the entire series.



Do you guys think that it would be ok for a bad guy to win in the end?










share|improve this question
















I have a five book series and I have plotted them all out. The main bad guy wins in the end. My problem with this is my girlfriend keeps telling me that bad guys winning will make readers upset that they invested in the heroes only for them to die or lose. So now I am second guessing the entire series.



Do you guys think that it would be ok for a bad guy to win in the end?







creative-writing characters novel series antagonist






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 7 hours ago









Cyn

25.4k2 gold badges56 silver badges116 bronze badges




25.4k2 gold badges56 silver badges116 bronze badges










asked 8 hours ago









icefireicefire

274 bronze badges




274 bronze badges












  • I think this question is Primarily Opinion-Based as written. Perhaps you could ask what the likely reaction would be for a reader to find that the "bad guy" wins, or whether there are any best practices in presenting this to the reader without making the story too depressing.

    – Robert Columbia
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    So your genre is which: Horror or Tragedy?

    – wetcircuit
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    its more Sci-fi than anything else.

    – icefire
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    Even in many classic tragedies, it's not so much that the "bad guy" wins but that the "good guys" lose. In some cases (cough)>Shakespeare(/cough), this ends in a literal pile of bodies.

    – Robert Columbia
    8 hours ago







  • 3





    So you have an evil protagonist.

    – wetcircuit
    8 hours ago


















  • I think this question is Primarily Opinion-Based as written. Perhaps you could ask what the likely reaction would be for a reader to find that the "bad guy" wins, or whether there are any best practices in presenting this to the reader without making the story too depressing.

    – Robert Columbia
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    So your genre is which: Horror or Tragedy?

    – wetcircuit
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    its more Sci-fi than anything else.

    – icefire
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    Even in many classic tragedies, it's not so much that the "bad guy" wins but that the "good guys" lose. In some cases (cough)>Shakespeare(/cough), this ends in a literal pile of bodies.

    – Robert Columbia
    8 hours ago







  • 3





    So you have an evil protagonist.

    – wetcircuit
    8 hours ago

















I think this question is Primarily Opinion-Based as written. Perhaps you could ask what the likely reaction would be for a reader to find that the "bad guy" wins, or whether there are any best practices in presenting this to the reader without making the story too depressing.

– Robert Columbia
8 hours ago





I think this question is Primarily Opinion-Based as written. Perhaps you could ask what the likely reaction would be for a reader to find that the "bad guy" wins, or whether there are any best practices in presenting this to the reader without making the story too depressing.

– Robert Columbia
8 hours ago




3




3





So your genre is which: Horror or Tragedy?

– wetcircuit
8 hours ago





So your genre is which: Horror or Tragedy?

– wetcircuit
8 hours ago




1




1





its more Sci-fi than anything else.

– icefire
8 hours ago





its more Sci-fi than anything else.

– icefire
8 hours ago




3




3





Even in many classic tragedies, it's not so much that the "bad guy" wins but that the "good guys" lose. In some cases (cough)>Shakespeare(/cough), this ends in a literal pile of bodies.

– Robert Columbia
8 hours ago






Even in many classic tragedies, it's not so much that the "bad guy" wins but that the "good guys" lose. In some cases (cough)>Shakespeare(/cough), this ends in a literal pile of bodies.

– Robert Columbia
8 hours ago





3




3





So you have an evil protagonist.

– wetcircuit
8 hours ago






So you have an evil protagonist.

– wetcircuit
8 hours ago











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















4














It is perfectly fine for your story to end with the "bad guy" winning. Consider for example George Orwell's 1984:




He loved Big Brother




Complete and utter defeat. 1984 is one of last century's masterpieces.



@Wetcircuit mentions tragedy in a comment, for good reason. Tragedy does not necessarily imply that the "bad guys" win, but it does imply the "good guys" lose, or at best earn a Pyrrhic victory. Consider Antigone or Hamlet, or For Whom the Bell Tolls. In fact, tragedy is often considered a "higher", more "literary" form.



Yes, your readers are going to be upset when your characters die or lose. At least, hopefully they will have come to care about your characters, so their death would sadden them. But that is not a bad thing. One feels sorrow when one finishes For Whom the Bell Tolls, but does one go "what a bad, disappointing book?" Never! On the contrary - one is profoundly touched by that sorrow, one appreciates more the fleeting beauty of life through it. @Amadeus apparently looks for entertainment in the books he reads. Me - I look for art. I look for that which would touch me, and take me out of my comfort zone, and make me think. Formulaic "good guys defeat bad guys, then live happily ever after" bores me out of my mind.



Now, there is a question of what you're trying to say with your story. Why does your "bad guy" win? What does it all imply? If all your story suggests is futility, for example, then your readers might well be disappointed. But if your story does have something else in it, like any of the examples I've mentioned above, or countless others, then go ahead.






share|improve this answer






























    3














    You can do it. But the expectation has to be set that this is possible, and it should be written like a tragedy. The market for such a book may be small, but it isn't nonexistent.



    Check out the grimdark genre (third law series is an example). People do buy into it and even like it. But it's unlikely to sell as wide as something that has a feel good ending.



    Or, go see the musical Hamilton.



    As a writer you'll have to be excellent to even have a chance. And putting "the tragedy of" in your title might not be a bad idea.






    share|improve this answer























    • Why Hamilton? I did not have the impression that: a) there was a bad guy, b) that the bad guy wins.

      – NofP
      6 hours ago











    • Burr, the vice president of the United States, shot his political rival and was never charged or convicted. Yes his political career was over, and maybe you have a more black and white definition of bad guy, but the point is that's a modern and very popular tragedy where the bad guy sort of wins.

      – Kirk
      6 hours ago












    • Definitively I have a more black and white definition of bad character. Also, it is not that Burr went sniper-mode. They fought in a duel, and they did so in a place and in a manner conducive to the expectation of avoiding prosecution. Chance is perhaps more to blame than Burr himself.

      – NofP
      5 hours ago


















    0














    No, I don't think it would be okay for a bad guy to win in the end.



    Readers don't like it. They read for fantasy fulfillment. Happy endings outsell unhappy endings ten to one; publishers and studios don't like unhappy endings. They want something positive in the end.



    Especially from a writer that has no following; if you were already a best-selling author or script-writer they might trust you and publish it anyway, but not if you are starting out.



    In a series you can have a mixed ending; basically a draw. The hero doesn't win, but doesn't lose. But even that might not be satisfying.



    If you are unpublished, you probably should not be writing a series, unless you intend to write all of it before trying to sell it. Publishers do not want to publish book one with an ambiguous ending if there is no guarantee you will actually finish the rest of the series. And if you are a beginner, they don't want to buy three or five books at once. And if your series has an unhappy ending, they don't want to buy any of it.



    I suggest you write a book, even a somewhat long book, that stands on its own, with a reasonably happy ending in which the hero prevails, perhaps at a cost but prevails. The villain is defeated, perhaps escaping with their life and bound to return, but defeated.



    The problem here is psychological. Reading fiction is escapism. What are readers trying to escape? The real world, where the bad guys win pretty much all the time! In real life, crime pays. People get away with rape and murder and abuse of others. Drug kingpins, dictators, corrupt politicians destroy innocent lives and live high on the hog without a single regret.



    The real world is what we are trying to get away from. We want you to make your story and setting believable, and the dangers feel real, but in the end we don't want the realism of the hero chickening out, or the bad guys prevailing and continuing to create pain, misery and hopelessness. In the end, we want the wish fulfillment fantasy that the good will prevail and the nightmare will end.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2





      You're wrong, but not about what people want most often. Some of the best stories are tragedies and you're ignoring a ton of historical context in this answer.

      – Kirk
      8 hours ago














    Your Answer








    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "166"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f46284%2fbad-guy-wins-in-my-book-series%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    4














    It is perfectly fine for your story to end with the "bad guy" winning. Consider for example George Orwell's 1984:




    He loved Big Brother




    Complete and utter defeat. 1984 is one of last century's masterpieces.



    @Wetcircuit mentions tragedy in a comment, for good reason. Tragedy does not necessarily imply that the "bad guys" win, but it does imply the "good guys" lose, or at best earn a Pyrrhic victory. Consider Antigone or Hamlet, or For Whom the Bell Tolls. In fact, tragedy is often considered a "higher", more "literary" form.



    Yes, your readers are going to be upset when your characters die or lose. At least, hopefully they will have come to care about your characters, so their death would sadden them. But that is not a bad thing. One feels sorrow when one finishes For Whom the Bell Tolls, but does one go "what a bad, disappointing book?" Never! On the contrary - one is profoundly touched by that sorrow, one appreciates more the fleeting beauty of life through it. @Amadeus apparently looks for entertainment in the books he reads. Me - I look for art. I look for that which would touch me, and take me out of my comfort zone, and make me think. Formulaic "good guys defeat bad guys, then live happily ever after" bores me out of my mind.



    Now, there is a question of what you're trying to say with your story. Why does your "bad guy" win? What does it all imply? If all your story suggests is futility, for example, then your readers might well be disappointed. But if your story does have something else in it, like any of the examples I've mentioned above, or countless others, then go ahead.






    share|improve this answer



























      4














      It is perfectly fine for your story to end with the "bad guy" winning. Consider for example George Orwell's 1984:




      He loved Big Brother




      Complete and utter defeat. 1984 is one of last century's masterpieces.



      @Wetcircuit mentions tragedy in a comment, for good reason. Tragedy does not necessarily imply that the "bad guys" win, but it does imply the "good guys" lose, or at best earn a Pyrrhic victory. Consider Antigone or Hamlet, or For Whom the Bell Tolls. In fact, tragedy is often considered a "higher", more "literary" form.



      Yes, your readers are going to be upset when your characters die or lose. At least, hopefully they will have come to care about your characters, so their death would sadden them. But that is not a bad thing. One feels sorrow when one finishes For Whom the Bell Tolls, but does one go "what a bad, disappointing book?" Never! On the contrary - one is profoundly touched by that sorrow, one appreciates more the fleeting beauty of life through it. @Amadeus apparently looks for entertainment in the books he reads. Me - I look for art. I look for that which would touch me, and take me out of my comfort zone, and make me think. Formulaic "good guys defeat bad guys, then live happily ever after" bores me out of my mind.



      Now, there is a question of what you're trying to say with your story. Why does your "bad guy" win? What does it all imply? If all your story suggests is futility, for example, then your readers might well be disappointed. But if your story does have something else in it, like any of the examples I've mentioned above, or countless others, then go ahead.






      share|improve this answer

























        4












        4








        4







        It is perfectly fine for your story to end with the "bad guy" winning. Consider for example George Orwell's 1984:




        He loved Big Brother




        Complete and utter defeat. 1984 is one of last century's masterpieces.



        @Wetcircuit mentions tragedy in a comment, for good reason. Tragedy does not necessarily imply that the "bad guys" win, but it does imply the "good guys" lose, or at best earn a Pyrrhic victory. Consider Antigone or Hamlet, or For Whom the Bell Tolls. In fact, tragedy is often considered a "higher", more "literary" form.



        Yes, your readers are going to be upset when your characters die or lose. At least, hopefully they will have come to care about your characters, so their death would sadden them. But that is not a bad thing. One feels sorrow when one finishes For Whom the Bell Tolls, but does one go "what a bad, disappointing book?" Never! On the contrary - one is profoundly touched by that sorrow, one appreciates more the fleeting beauty of life through it. @Amadeus apparently looks for entertainment in the books he reads. Me - I look for art. I look for that which would touch me, and take me out of my comfort zone, and make me think. Formulaic "good guys defeat bad guys, then live happily ever after" bores me out of my mind.



        Now, there is a question of what you're trying to say with your story. Why does your "bad guy" win? What does it all imply? If all your story suggests is futility, for example, then your readers might well be disappointed. But if your story does have something else in it, like any of the examples I've mentioned above, or countless others, then go ahead.






        share|improve this answer













        It is perfectly fine for your story to end with the "bad guy" winning. Consider for example George Orwell's 1984:




        He loved Big Brother




        Complete and utter defeat. 1984 is one of last century's masterpieces.



        @Wetcircuit mentions tragedy in a comment, for good reason. Tragedy does not necessarily imply that the "bad guys" win, but it does imply the "good guys" lose, or at best earn a Pyrrhic victory. Consider Antigone or Hamlet, or For Whom the Bell Tolls. In fact, tragedy is often considered a "higher", more "literary" form.



        Yes, your readers are going to be upset when your characters die or lose. At least, hopefully they will have come to care about your characters, so their death would sadden them. But that is not a bad thing. One feels sorrow when one finishes For Whom the Bell Tolls, but does one go "what a bad, disappointing book?" Never! On the contrary - one is profoundly touched by that sorrow, one appreciates more the fleeting beauty of life through it. @Amadeus apparently looks for entertainment in the books he reads. Me - I look for art. I look for that which would touch me, and take me out of my comfort zone, and make me think. Formulaic "good guys defeat bad guys, then live happily ever after" bores me out of my mind.



        Now, there is a question of what you're trying to say with your story. Why does your "bad guy" win? What does it all imply? If all your story suggests is futility, for example, then your readers might well be disappointed. But if your story does have something else in it, like any of the examples I've mentioned above, or countless others, then go ahead.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 7 hours ago









        GalastelGalastel

        40.1k6 gold badges117 silver badges219 bronze badges




        40.1k6 gold badges117 silver badges219 bronze badges























            3














            You can do it. But the expectation has to be set that this is possible, and it should be written like a tragedy. The market for such a book may be small, but it isn't nonexistent.



            Check out the grimdark genre (third law series is an example). People do buy into it and even like it. But it's unlikely to sell as wide as something that has a feel good ending.



            Or, go see the musical Hamilton.



            As a writer you'll have to be excellent to even have a chance. And putting "the tragedy of" in your title might not be a bad idea.






            share|improve this answer























            • Why Hamilton? I did not have the impression that: a) there was a bad guy, b) that the bad guy wins.

              – NofP
              6 hours ago











            • Burr, the vice president of the United States, shot his political rival and was never charged or convicted. Yes his political career was over, and maybe you have a more black and white definition of bad guy, but the point is that's a modern and very popular tragedy where the bad guy sort of wins.

              – Kirk
              6 hours ago












            • Definitively I have a more black and white definition of bad character. Also, it is not that Burr went sniper-mode. They fought in a duel, and they did so in a place and in a manner conducive to the expectation of avoiding prosecution. Chance is perhaps more to blame than Burr himself.

              – NofP
              5 hours ago















            3














            You can do it. But the expectation has to be set that this is possible, and it should be written like a tragedy. The market for such a book may be small, but it isn't nonexistent.



            Check out the grimdark genre (third law series is an example). People do buy into it and even like it. But it's unlikely to sell as wide as something that has a feel good ending.



            Or, go see the musical Hamilton.



            As a writer you'll have to be excellent to even have a chance. And putting "the tragedy of" in your title might not be a bad idea.






            share|improve this answer























            • Why Hamilton? I did not have the impression that: a) there was a bad guy, b) that the bad guy wins.

              – NofP
              6 hours ago











            • Burr, the vice president of the United States, shot his political rival and was never charged or convicted. Yes his political career was over, and maybe you have a more black and white definition of bad guy, but the point is that's a modern and very popular tragedy where the bad guy sort of wins.

              – Kirk
              6 hours ago












            • Definitively I have a more black and white definition of bad character. Also, it is not that Burr went sniper-mode. They fought in a duel, and they did so in a place and in a manner conducive to the expectation of avoiding prosecution. Chance is perhaps more to blame than Burr himself.

              – NofP
              5 hours ago













            3












            3








            3







            You can do it. But the expectation has to be set that this is possible, and it should be written like a tragedy. The market for such a book may be small, but it isn't nonexistent.



            Check out the grimdark genre (third law series is an example). People do buy into it and even like it. But it's unlikely to sell as wide as something that has a feel good ending.



            Or, go see the musical Hamilton.



            As a writer you'll have to be excellent to even have a chance. And putting "the tragedy of" in your title might not be a bad idea.






            share|improve this answer













            You can do it. But the expectation has to be set that this is possible, and it should be written like a tragedy. The market for such a book may be small, but it isn't nonexistent.



            Check out the grimdark genre (third law series is an example). People do buy into it and even like it. But it's unlikely to sell as wide as something that has a feel good ending.



            Or, go see the musical Hamilton.



            As a writer you'll have to be excellent to even have a chance. And putting "the tragedy of" in your title might not be a bad idea.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 8 hours ago









            KirkKirk

            6,7101 gold badge9 silver badges38 bronze badges




            6,7101 gold badge9 silver badges38 bronze badges












            • Why Hamilton? I did not have the impression that: a) there was a bad guy, b) that the bad guy wins.

              – NofP
              6 hours ago











            • Burr, the vice president of the United States, shot his political rival and was never charged or convicted. Yes his political career was over, and maybe you have a more black and white definition of bad guy, but the point is that's a modern and very popular tragedy where the bad guy sort of wins.

              – Kirk
              6 hours ago












            • Definitively I have a more black and white definition of bad character. Also, it is not that Burr went sniper-mode. They fought in a duel, and they did so in a place and in a manner conducive to the expectation of avoiding prosecution. Chance is perhaps more to blame than Burr himself.

              – NofP
              5 hours ago

















            • Why Hamilton? I did not have the impression that: a) there was a bad guy, b) that the bad guy wins.

              – NofP
              6 hours ago











            • Burr, the vice president of the United States, shot his political rival and was never charged or convicted. Yes his political career was over, and maybe you have a more black and white definition of bad guy, but the point is that's a modern and very popular tragedy where the bad guy sort of wins.

              – Kirk
              6 hours ago












            • Definitively I have a more black and white definition of bad character. Also, it is not that Burr went sniper-mode. They fought in a duel, and they did so in a place and in a manner conducive to the expectation of avoiding prosecution. Chance is perhaps more to blame than Burr himself.

              – NofP
              5 hours ago
















            Why Hamilton? I did not have the impression that: a) there was a bad guy, b) that the bad guy wins.

            – NofP
            6 hours ago





            Why Hamilton? I did not have the impression that: a) there was a bad guy, b) that the bad guy wins.

            – NofP
            6 hours ago













            Burr, the vice president of the United States, shot his political rival and was never charged or convicted. Yes his political career was over, and maybe you have a more black and white definition of bad guy, but the point is that's a modern and very popular tragedy where the bad guy sort of wins.

            – Kirk
            6 hours ago






            Burr, the vice president of the United States, shot his political rival and was never charged or convicted. Yes his political career was over, and maybe you have a more black and white definition of bad guy, but the point is that's a modern and very popular tragedy where the bad guy sort of wins.

            – Kirk
            6 hours ago














            Definitively I have a more black and white definition of bad character. Also, it is not that Burr went sniper-mode. They fought in a duel, and they did so in a place and in a manner conducive to the expectation of avoiding prosecution. Chance is perhaps more to blame than Burr himself.

            – NofP
            5 hours ago





            Definitively I have a more black and white definition of bad character. Also, it is not that Burr went sniper-mode. They fought in a duel, and they did so in a place and in a manner conducive to the expectation of avoiding prosecution. Chance is perhaps more to blame than Burr himself.

            – NofP
            5 hours ago











            0














            No, I don't think it would be okay for a bad guy to win in the end.



            Readers don't like it. They read for fantasy fulfillment. Happy endings outsell unhappy endings ten to one; publishers and studios don't like unhappy endings. They want something positive in the end.



            Especially from a writer that has no following; if you were already a best-selling author or script-writer they might trust you and publish it anyway, but not if you are starting out.



            In a series you can have a mixed ending; basically a draw. The hero doesn't win, but doesn't lose. But even that might not be satisfying.



            If you are unpublished, you probably should not be writing a series, unless you intend to write all of it before trying to sell it. Publishers do not want to publish book one with an ambiguous ending if there is no guarantee you will actually finish the rest of the series. And if you are a beginner, they don't want to buy three or five books at once. And if your series has an unhappy ending, they don't want to buy any of it.



            I suggest you write a book, even a somewhat long book, that stands on its own, with a reasonably happy ending in which the hero prevails, perhaps at a cost but prevails. The villain is defeated, perhaps escaping with their life and bound to return, but defeated.



            The problem here is psychological. Reading fiction is escapism. What are readers trying to escape? The real world, where the bad guys win pretty much all the time! In real life, crime pays. People get away with rape and murder and abuse of others. Drug kingpins, dictators, corrupt politicians destroy innocent lives and live high on the hog without a single regret.



            The real world is what we are trying to get away from. We want you to make your story and setting believable, and the dangers feel real, but in the end we don't want the realism of the hero chickening out, or the bad guys prevailing and continuing to create pain, misery and hopelessness. In the end, we want the wish fulfillment fantasy that the good will prevail and the nightmare will end.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 2





              You're wrong, but not about what people want most often. Some of the best stories are tragedies and you're ignoring a ton of historical context in this answer.

              – Kirk
              8 hours ago
















            0














            No, I don't think it would be okay for a bad guy to win in the end.



            Readers don't like it. They read for fantasy fulfillment. Happy endings outsell unhappy endings ten to one; publishers and studios don't like unhappy endings. They want something positive in the end.



            Especially from a writer that has no following; if you were already a best-selling author or script-writer they might trust you and publish it anyway, but not if you are starting out.



            In a series you can have a mixed ending; basically a draw. The hero doesn't win, but doesn't lose. But even that might not be satisfying.



            If you are unpublished, you probably should not be writing a series, unless you intend to write all of it before trying to sell it. Publishers do not want to publish book one with an ambiguous ending if there is no guarantee you will actually finish the rest of the series. And if you are a beginner, they don't want to buy three or five books at once. And if your series has an unhappy ending, they don't want to buy any of it.



            I suggest you write a book, even a somewhat long book, that stands on its own, with a reasonably happy ending in which the hero prevails, perhaps at a cost but prevails. The villain is defeated, perhaps escaping with their life and bound to return, but defeated.



            The problem here is psychological. Reading fiction is escapism. What are readers trying to escape? The real world, where the bad guys win pretty much all the time! In real life, crime pays. People get away with rape and murder and abuse of others. Drug kingpins, dictators, corrupt politicians destroy innocent lives and live high on the hog without a single regret.



            The real world is what we are trying to get away from. We want you to make your story and setting believable, and the dangers feel real, but in the end we don't want the realism of the hero chickening out, or the bad guys prevailing and continuing to create pain, misery and hopelessness. In the end, we want the wish fulfillment fantasy that the good will prevail and the nightmare will end.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 2





              You're wrong, but not about what people want most often. Some of the best stories are tragedies and you're ignoring a ton of historical context in this answer.

              – Kirk
              8 hours ago














            0












            0








            0







            No, I don't think it would be okay for a bad guy to win in the end.



            Readers don't like it. They read for fantasy fulfillment. Happy endings outsell unhappy endings ten to one; publishers and studios don't like unhappy endings. They want something positive in the end.



            Especially from a writer that has no following; if you were already a best-selling author or script-writer they might trust you and publish it anyway, but not if you are starting out.



            In a series you can have a mixed ending; basically a draw. The hero doesn't win, but doesn't lose. But even that might not be satisfying.



            If you are unpublished, you probably should not be writing a series, unless you intend to write all of it before trying to sell it. Publishers do not want to publish book one with an ambiguous ending if there is no guarantee you will actually finish the rest of the series. And if you are a beginner, they don't want to buy three or five books at once. And if your series has an unhappy ending, they don't want to buy any of it.



            I suggest you write a book, even a somewhat long book, that stands on its own, with a reasonably happy ending in which the hero prevails, perhaps at a cost but prevails. The villain is defeated, perhaps escaping with their life and bound to return, but defeated.



            The problem here is psychological. Reading fiction is escapism. What are readers trying to escape? The real world, where the bad guys win pretty much all the time! In real life, crime pays. People get away with rape and murder and abuse of others. Drug kingpins, dictators, corrupt politicians destroy innocent lives and live high on the hog without a single regret.



            The real world is what we are trying to get away from. We want you to make your story and setting believable, and the dangers feel real, but in the end we don't want the realism of the hero chickening out, or the bad guys prevailing and continuing to create pain, misery and hopelessness. In the end, we want the wish fulfillment fantasy that the good will prevail and the nightmare will end.






            share|improve this answer













            No, I don't think it would be okay for a bad guy to win in the end.



            Readers don't like it. They read for fantasy fulfillment. Happy endings outsell unhappy endings ten to one; publishers and studios don't like unhappy endings. They want something positive in the end.



            Especially from a writer that has no following; if you were already a best-selling author or script-writer they might trust you and publish it anyway, but not if you are starting out.



            In a series you can have a mixed ending; basically a draw. The hero doesn't win, but doesn't lose. But even that might not be satisfying.



            If you are unpublished, you probably should not be writing a series, unless you intend to write all of it before trying to sell it. Publishers do not want to publish book one with an ambiguous ending if there is no guarantee you will actually finish the rest of the series. And if you are a beginner, they don't want to buy three or five books at once. And if your series has an unhappy ending, they don't want to buy any of it.



            I suggest you write a book, even a somewhat long book, that stands on its own, with a reasonably happy ending in which the hero prevails, perhaps at a cost but prevails. The villain is defeated, perhaps escaping with their life and bound to return, but defeated.



            The problem here is psychological. Reading fiction is escapism. What are readers trying to escape? The real world, where the bad guys win pretty much all the time! In real life, crime pays. People get away with rape and murder and abuse of others. Drug kingpins, dictators, corrupt politicians destroy innocent lives and live high on the hog without a single regret.



            The real world is what we are trying to get away from. We want you to make your story and setting believable, and the dangers feel real, but in the end we don't want the realism of the hero chickening out, or the bad guys prevailing and continuing to create pain, misery and hopelessness. In the end, we want the wish fulfillment fantasy that the good will prevail and the nightmare will end.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 8 hours ago









            AmadeusAmadeus

            65.4k7 gold badges81 silver badges212 bronze badges




            65.4k7 gold badges81 silver badges212 bronze badges







            • 2





              You're wrong, but not about what people want most often. Some of the best stories are tragedies and you're ignoring a ton of historical context in this answer.

              – Kirk
              8 hours ago













            • 2





              You're wrong, but not about what people want most often. Some of the best stories are tragedies and you're ignoring a ton of historical context in this answer.

              – Kirk
              8 hours ago








            2




            2





            You're wrong, but not about what people want most often. Some of the best stories are tragedies and you're ignoring a ton of historical context in this answer.

            – Kirk
            8 hours ago






            You're wrong, but not about what people want most often. Some of the best stories are tragedies and you're ignoring a ton of historical context in this answer.

            – Kirk
            8 hours ago


















            draft saved

            draft discarded
















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Writing Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f46284%2fbad-guy-wins-in-my-book-series%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            19. јануар Садржај Догађаји Рођења Смрти Празници и дани сећања Види још Референце Мени за навигацијуу

            Israel Cuprins Etimologie | Istorie | Geografie | Politică | Demografie | Educație | Economie | Cultură | Note explicative | Note bibliografice | Bibliografie | Legături externe | Meniu de navigaresite web oficialfacebooktweeterGoogle+Instagramcanal YouTubeInstagramtextmodificaremodificarewww.technion.ac.ilnew.huji.ac.ilwww.weizmann.ac.ilwww1.biu.ac.ilenglish.tau.ac.ilwww.haifa.ac.ilin.bgu.ac.ilwww.openu.ac.ilwww.ariel.ac.ilCIA FactbookHarta Israelului"Negotiating Jerusalem," Palestine–Israel JournalThe Schizoid Nature of Modern Hebrew: A Slavic Language in Search of a Semitic Past„Arabic in Israel: an official language and a cultural bridge”„Latest Population Statistics for Israel”„Israel Population”„Tables”„Report for Selected Countries and Subjects”Human Development Report 2016: Human Development for Everyone„Distribution of family income - Gini index”The World FactbookJerusalem Law„Israel”„Israel”„Zionist Leaders: David Ben-Gurion 1886–1973”„The status of Jerusalem”„Analysis: Kadima's big plans”„Israel's Hard-Learned Lessons”„The Legacy of Undefined Borders, Tel Aviv Notes No. 40, 5 iunie 2002”„Israel Journal: A Land Without Borders”„Population”„Israel closes decade with population of 7.5 million”Time Series-DataBank„Selected Statistics on Jerusalem Day 2007 (Hebrew)”Golan belongs to Syria, Druze protestGlobal Survey 2006: Middle East Progress Amid Global Gains in FreedomWHO: Life expectancy in Israel among highest in the worldInternational Monetary Fund, World Economic Outlook Database, April 2011: Nominal GDP list of countries. Data for the year 2010.„Israel's accession to the OECD”Popular Opinion„On the Move”Hosea 12:5„Walking the Bible Timeline”„Palestine: History”„Return to Zion”An invention called 'the Jewish people' – Haaretz – Israel NewsoriginalJewish and Non-Jewish Population of Palestine-Israel (1517–2004)ImmigrationJewishvirtuallibrary.orgChapter One: The Heralders of Zionism„The birth of modern Israel: A scrap of paper that changed history”„League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, 24 iulie 1922”The Population of Palestine Prior to 1948originalBackground Paper No. 47 (ST/DPI/SER.A/47)History: Foreign DominationTwo Hundred and Seventh Plenary Meeting„Israel (Labor Zionism)”Population, by Religion and Population GroupThe Suez CrisisAdolf EichmannJustice Ministry Reply to Amnesty International Report„The Interregnum”Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs – The Palestinian National Covenant- July 1968Research on terrorism: trends, achievements & failuresThe Routledge Atlas of the Arab–Israeli conflict: The Complete History of the Struggle and the Efforts to Resolve It"George Habash, Palestinian Terrorism Tactician, Dies at 82."„1973: Arab states attack Israeli forces”Agranat Commission„Has Israel Annexed East Jerusalem?”original„After 4 Years, Intifada Still Smolders”From the End of the Cold War to 2001originalThe Oslo Accords, 1993Israel-PLO Recognition – Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat – Sept 9- 1993Foundation for Middle East PeaceSources of Population Growth: Total Israeli Population and Settler Population, 1991–2003original„Israel marks Rabin assassination”The Wye River Memorandumoriginal„West Bank barrier route disputed, Israeli missile kills 2”"Permanent Ceasefire to Be Based on Creation Of Buffer Zone Free of Armed Personnel Other than UN, Lebanese Forces"„Hezbollah kills 8 soldiers, kidnaps two in offensive on northern border”„Olmert confirms peace talks with Syria”„Battleground Gaza: Israeli ground forces invade the strip”„IDF begins Gaza troop withdrawal, hours after ending 3-week offensive”„THE LAND: Geography and Climate”„Area of districts, sub-districts, natural regions and lakes”„Israel - Geography”„Makhteshim Country”Israel and the Palestinian Territories„Makhtesh Ramon”„The Living Dead Sea”„Temperatures reach record high in Pakistan”„Climate Extremes In Israel”Israel in figures„Deuteronom”„JNF: 240 million trees planted since 1901”„Vegetation of Israel and Neighboring Countries”Environmental Law in Israel„Executive branch”„Israel's election process explained”„The Electoral System in Israel”„Constitution for Israel”„All 120 incoming Knesset members”„Statul ISRAEL”„The Judiciary: The Court System”„Israel's high court unique in region”„Israel and the International Criminal Court: A Legal Battlefield”„Localities and population, by population group, district, sub-district and natural region”„Israel: Districts, Major Cities, Urban Localities & Metropolitan Areas”„Israel-Egypt Relations: Background & Overview of Peace Treaty”„Solana to Haaretz: New Rules of War Needed for Age of Terror”„Israel's Announcement Regarding Settlements”„United Nations Security Council Resolution 497”„Security Council resolution 478 (1980) on the status of Jerusalem”„Arabs will ask U.N. to seek razing of Israeli wall”„Olmert: Willing to trade land for peace”„Mapping Peace between Syria and Israel”„Egypt: Israel must accept the land-for-peace formula”„Israel: Age structure from 2005 to 2015”„Global, regional, and national disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) for 306 diseases and injuries and healthy life expectancy (HALE) for 188 countries, 1990–2013: quantifying the epidemiological transition”10.1016/S0140-6736(15)61340-X„World Health Statistics 2014”„Life expectancy for Israeli men world's 4th highest”„Family Structure and Well-Being Across Israel's Diverse Population”„Fertility among Jewish and Muslim Women in Israel, by Level of Religiosity, 1979-2009”„Israel leaders in birth rate, but poverty major challenge”„Ethnic Groups”„Israel's population: Over 8.5 million”„Israel - Ethnic groups”„Jews, by country of origin and age”„Minority Communities in Israel: Background & Overview”„Israel”„Language in Israel”„Selected Data from the 2011 Social Survey on Mastery of the Hebrew Language and Usage of Languages”„Religions”„5 facts about Israeli Druze, a unique religious and ethnic group”„Israël”Israel Country Study Guide„Haredi city in Negev – blessing or curse?”„New town Harish harbors hopes of being more than another Pleasantville”„List of localities, in alphabetical order”„Muncitorii români, doriți în Israel”„Prietenia româno-israeliană la nevoie se cunoaște”„The Higher Education System in Israel”„Middle East”„Academic Ranking of World Universities 2016”„Israel”„Israel”„Jewish Nobel Prize Winners”„All Nobel Prizes in Literature”„All Nobel Peace Prizes”„All Prizes in Economic Sciences”„All Nobel Prizes in Chemistry”„List of Fields Medallists”„Sakharov Prize”„Țara care și-a sfidat "destinul" și se bate umăr la umăr cu Silicon Valley”„Apple's R&D center in Israel grew to about 800 employees”„Tim Cook: Apple's Herzliya R&D center second-largest in world”„Lecții de economie de la Israel”„Land use”Israel Investment and Business GuideA Country Study: IsraelCentral Bureau of StatisticsFlorin Diaconu, „Kadima: Flexibilitate și pragmatism, dar nici un compromis în chestiuni vitale", în Revista Institutului Diplomatic Român, anul I, numărul I, semestrul I, 2006, pp. 71-72Florin Diaconu, „Likud: Dreapta israeliană constant opusă retrocedării teritoriilor cureite prin luptă în 1967", în Revista Institutului Diplomatic Român, anul I, numărul I, semestrul I, 2006, pp. 73-74MassadaIsraelul a crescut in 50 de ani cât alte state intr-un mileniuIsrael Government PortalIsraelIsraelIsraelmmmmmXX451232cb118646298(data)4027808-634110000 0004 0372 0767n7900328503691455-bb46-37e3-91d2-cb064a35ffcc1003570400564274ge1294033523775214929302638955X146498911146498911

            Кастелфранко ди Сопра Становништво Референце Спољашње везе Мени за навигацију43°37′18″ СГШ; 11°33′32″ ИГД / 43.62156° СГШ; 11.55885° ИГД / 43.62156; 11.5588543°37′18″ СГШ; 11°33′32″ ИГД / 43.62156° СГШ; 11.55885° ИГД / 43.62156; 11.558853179688„The GeoNames geographical database”„Istituto Nazionale di Statistica”проширитиууWorldCat156923403n850174324558639-1cb14643287r(подаци)