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Why was the Russian letter X called хѣръ?
Why doesn't Russian have native words beginning with А?Where do the following words come from: лето, весна, осень, зима?Meaning of чё - что or чего?Russian “version” of Elizabeth, Philip, Henry and Paige?Etymology of крестWhy did the meaning of the loanword креол change?When and why did Asian and Southern people start to be called “чурки”?Why do Russians call their women expensive (“дорогая”)?The original word for a wild boarWhat is the original Russian word for a watermelon?
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The official name of the letter X in the old Russian alphabet was хѣръ, which is how modern Russians call a dick.
The names of most other letters of the old Russian alphabet are understandable: азъ (I), буки (letter), вѣди (know), глаголь (speak), добро (good), etc.
What is the origin of the letter name хѣръ?
UPDATE: To ensure that everyone understand my question right, I want to emphasize that my question is about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. I know that another obscene word starts with X and that people started using the letter name to refer to that word, so the letter name itself became an obscene word, too. The name for the letter was obviously chosen well before this name became an obscene word.
UPDATE 2: I am aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the letter names abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. Moreover, the very idea of the old names of Russian letters was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters. I thus strongly suspect that хѣръ had its own meaning understanable to at least a part of the Russians of that epoch. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. And my primary motivation to ask the question was to find that meaning.
значения этимология
add a comment |
The official name of the letter X in the old Russian alphabet was хѣръ, which is how modern Russians call a dick.
The names of most other letters of the old Russian alphabet are understandable: азъ (I), буки (letter), вѣди (know), глаголь (speak), добро (good), etc.
What is the origin of the letter name хѣръ?
UPDATE: To ensure that everyone understand my question right, I want to emphasize that my question is about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. I know that another obscene word starts with X and that people started using the letter name to refer to that word, so the letter name itself became an obscene word, too. The name for the letter was obviously chosen well before this name became an obscene word.
UPDATE 2: I am aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the letter names abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. Moreover, the very idea of the old names of Russian letters was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters. I thus strongly suspect that хѣръ had its own meaning understanable to at least a part of the Russians of that epoch. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. And my primary motivation to ask the question was to find that meaning.
значения этимология
2
It's the shortest question of this author! )))))
– Elena
9 hours ago
add a comment |
The official name of the letter X in the old Russian alphabet was хѣръ, which is how modern Russians call a dick.
The names of most other letters of the old Russian alphabet are understandable: азъ (I), буки (letter), вѣди (know), глаголь (speak), добро (good), etc.
What is the origin of the letter name хѣръ?
UPDATE: To ensure that everyone understand my question right, I want to emphasize that my question is about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. I know that another obscene word starts with X and that people started using the letter name to refer to that word, so the letter name itself became an obscene word, too. The name for the letter was obviously chosen well before this name became an obscene word.
UPDATE 2: I am aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the letter names abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. Moreover, the very idea of the old names of Russian letters was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters. I thus strongly suspect that хѣръ had its own meaning understanable to at least a part of the Russians of that epoch. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. And my primary motivation to ask the question was to find that meaning.
значения этимология
The official name of the letter X in the old Russian alphabet was хѣръ, which is how modern Russians call a dick.
The names of most other letters of the old Russian alphabet are understandable: азъ (I), буки (letter), вѣди (know), глаголь (speak), добро (good), etc.
What is the origin of the letter name хѣръ?
UPDATE: To ensure that everyone understand my question right, I want to emphasize that my question is about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. I know that another obscene word starts with X and that people started using the letter name to refer to that word, so the letter name itself became an obscene word, too. The name for the letter was obviously chosen well before this name became an obscene word.
UPDATE 2: I am aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the letter names abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. Moreover, the very idea of the old names of Russian letters was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters. I thus strongly suspect that хѣръ had its own meaning understanable to at least a part of the Russians of that epoch. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. And my primary motivation to ask the question was to find that meaning.
значения этимология
значения этимология
edited 6 hours ago
Mitsuko
asked 9 hours ago
MitsukoMitsuko
2,0311 gold badge10 silver badges32 bronze badges
2,0311 gold badge10 silver badges32 bronze badges
2
It's the shortest question of this author! )))))
– Elena
9 hours ago
add a comment |
2
It's the shortest question of this author! )))))
– Elena
9 hours ago
2
2
It's the shortest question of this author! )))))
– Elena
9 hours ago
It's the shortest question of this author! )))))
– Elena
9 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
The matter is that the letter Х is the first letter of the Russian obscene word, so the word was shortened in speech to just this letter called by its alphabetic name. So, хѣръ in this meaning was initially an abbreviation, then it became an euphemism, and only afterwards it came to being a synonym.
1
Thanks for the quick answer. My question is actually about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. Maybe I was not clear enough in formulating my question. I will try to edit it to make it more clear.
– Mitsuko
9 hours ago
Mitsuko, your question was clear. But I haven't found any information why the letter was called this word and what it denoted. I can only supppose that there was no proper word for this letter, and its sound [x] was completed with the name of ъ stressing the hardness of the sound [x]. Ъ was called ѣръ.
– Elena
9 hours ago
Oh, this is a very interesting hypothesis and makes perfect sense!
– Mitsuko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Actually nobody knows for sure. What we definitely know - it has nothing to do with obscene хер
. Well, only in that sense that obscene "хер" might be a derivative from the letter as an euphemism of "хуй". It also sound similar to other derivative - хрен
.
Even more - there's a totally non-obscene verb похерить
which means to obliterate, to cancel out, figuratively - to lose something.
Here's a quote from wikipedia:
В старо- и церковнославянской азбуках носит название «хѣръ», смысл
которого не ясен: считать его, как это часто делается, связанным со
словом «херувим» затруднительно (последнее не содержало ятя, хотя в
качестве фонетической адаптации мягких заднеязычных ять мог иногда
появляться в заимствованиях, например, известны написания вроде
Гѣръманъ)
One alternative definition we can find in Max Fasmer's famous dictionary:
Кроме того, допускают происхождение из греч. χαῖρε "привет тебе"
Keep in mind, however, that this dictionary is as much famous as in some aspects quite obsolete.
As a side note: while the majority of Cyrillic letters indeed have names that are basically valid Slavic words - even рцы
- which is not that obvious for modern Russian speaker - still, there are some letters named not after any word - like цы
for instance.
Thanks a lot. I was aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the alphabet abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. I am almost sure that хѣръ had ist own meaning in Old Russian. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. I asked my question because I want to find what that meaning was :)
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko I've added yet another alternative version however I have to disappoint you - it's very unlikely it have anything to do with any Slavic root - it's not supported by any evidence.
– shabunc♦
8 hours ago
My impression is that the very idea of such letter names was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko i'm believe херувим is a Christian backronym, so to speak, for the letter's name, a name of no other letter comes from religious vocabulary, and its name might have had a meaning already in Old Slavonic where the letters names probably originate
– Баян Купи-ка
8 hours ago
Concerning the letter цы, I found this: В церковно- и старославянской азбуках именуется «цы» (ц.-с.) или «ци» (с.-с.), смысл которых не совсем понятен. Его относят: к форме имен. пад. мн. ч. мужского рода «ции» — от «кыи» — относительного и вопросительного местоимения (который, какой); к древнерусскому союзу «ци» («или», «верно ли, что», «разве»), соответствующему украинскому современному «чи»; имеются и иные версии. So it may have been a Slavic word, too.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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The matter is that the letter Х is the first letter of the Russian obscene word, so the word was shortened in speech to just this letter called by its alphabetic name. So, хѣръ in this meaning was initially an abbreviation, then it became an euphemism, and only afterwards it came to being a synonym.
1
Thanks for the quick answer. My question is actually about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. Maybe I was not clear enough in formulating my question. I will try to edit it to make it more clear.
– Mitsuko
9 hours ago
Mitsuko, your question was clear. But I haven't found any information why the letter was called this word and what it denoted. I can only supppose that there was no proper word for this letter, and its sound [x] was completed with the name of ъ stressing the hardness of the sound [x]. Ъ was called ѣръ.
– Elena
9 hours ago
Oh, this is a very interesting hypothesis and makes perfect sense!
– Mitsuko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
The matter is that the letter Х is the first letter of the Russian obscene word, so the word was shortened in speech to just this letter called by its alphabetic name. So, хѣръ in this meaning was initially an abbreviation, then it became an euphemism, and only afterwards it came to being a synonym.
1
Thanks for the quick answer. My question is actually about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. Maybe I was not clear enough in formulating my question. I will try to edit it to make it more clear.
– Mitsuko
9 hours ago
Mitsuko, your question was clear. But I haven't found any information why the letter was called this word and what it denoted. I can only supppose that there was no proper word for this letter, and its sound [x] was completed with the name of ъ stressing the hardness of the sound [x]. Ъ was called ѣръ.
– Elena
9 hours ago
Oh, this is a very interesting hypothesis and makes perfect sense!
– Mitsuko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
The matter is that the letter Х is the first letter of the Russian obscene word, so the word was shortened in speech to just this letter called by its alphabetic name. So, хѣръ in this meaning was initially an abbreviation, then it became an euphemism, and only afterwards it came to being a synonym.
The matter is that the letter Х is the first letter of the Russian obscene word, so the word was shortened in speech to just this letter called by its alphabetic name. So, хѣръ in this meaning was initially an abbreviation, then it became an euphemism, and only afterwards it came to being a synonym.
answered 9 hours ago
ElenaElena
3,5434 silver badges15 bronze badges
3,5434 silver badges15 bronze badges
1
Thanks for the quick answer. My question is actually about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. Maybe I was not clear enough in formulating my question. I will try to edit it to make it more clear.
– Mitsuko
9 hours ago
Mitsuko, your question was clear. But I haven't found any information why the letter was called this word and what it denoted. I can only supppose that there was no proper word for this letter, and its sound [x] was completed with the name of ъ stressing the hardness of the sound [x]. Ъ was called ѣръ.
– Elena
9 hours ago
Oh, this is a very interesting hypothesis and makes perfect sense!
– Mitsuko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Thanks for the quick answer. My question is actually about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. Maybe I was not clear enough in formulating my question. I will try to edit it to make it more clear.
– Mitsuko
9 hours ago
Mitsuko, your question was clear. But I haven't found any information why the letter was called this word and what it denoted. I can only supppose that there was no proper word for this letter, and its sound [x] was completed with the name of ъ stressing the hardness of the sound [x]. Ъ was called ѣръ.
– Elena
9 hours ago
Oh, this is a very interesting hypothesis and makes perfect sense!
– Mitsuko
7 hours ago
1
1
Thanks for the quick answer. My question is actually about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. Maybe I was not clear enough in formulating my question. I will try to edit it to make it more clear.
– Mitsuko
9 hours ago
Thanks for the quick answer. My question is actually about why the letter itself was called хѣръ, not about why it is nowadays an obscene word. Maybe I was not clear enough in formulating my question. I will try to edit it to make it more clear.
– Mitsuko
9 hours ago
Mitsuko, your question was clear. But I haven't found any information why the letter was called this word and what it denoted. I can only supppose that there was no proper word for this letter, and its sound [x] was completed with the name of ъ stressing the hardness of the sound [x]. Ъ was called ѣръ.
– Elena
9 hours ago
Mitsuko, your question was clear. But I haven't found any information why the letter was called this word and what it denoted. I can only supppose that there was no proper word for this letter, and its sound [x] was completed with the name of ъ stressing the hardness of the sound [x]. Ъ was called ѣръ.
– Elena
9 hours ago
Oh, this is a very interesting hypothesis and makes perfect sense!
– Mitsuko
7 hours ago
Oh, this is a very interesting hypothesis and makes perfect sense!
– Mitsuko
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Actually nobody knows for sure. What we definitely know - it has nothing to do with obscene хер
. Well, only in that sense that obscene "хер" might be a derivative from the letter as an euphemism of "хуй". It also sound similar to other derivative - хрен
.
Even more - there's a totally non-obscene verb похерить
which means to obliterate, to cancel out, figuratively - to lose something.
Here's a quote from wikipedia:
В старо- и церковнославянской азбуках носит название «хѣръ», смысл
которого не ясен: считать его, как это часто делается, связанным со
словом «херувим» затруднительно (последнее не содержало ятя, хотя в
качестве фонетической адаптации мягких заднеязычных ять мог иногда
появляться в заимствованиях, например, известны написания вроде
Гѣръманъ)
One alternative definition we can find in Max Fasmer's famous dictionary:
Кроме того, допускают происхождение из греч. χαῖρε "привет тебе"
Keep in mind, however, that this dictionary is as much famous as in some aspects quite obsolete.
As a side note: while the majority of Cyrillic letters indeed have names that are basically valid Slavic words - even рцы
- which is not that obvious for modern Russian speaker - still, there are some letters named not after any word - like цы
for instance.
Thanks a lot. I was aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the alphabet abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. I am almost sure that хѣръ had ist own meaning in Old Russian. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. I asked my question because I want to find what that meaning was :)
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko I've added yet another alternative version however I have to disappoint you - it's very unlikely it have anything to do with any Slavic root - it's not supported by any evidence.
– shabunc♦
8 hours ago
My impression is that the very idea of such letter names was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko i'm believe херувим is a Christian backronym, so to speak, for the letter's name, a name of no other letter comes from religious vocabulary, and its name might have had a meaning already in Old Slavonic where the letters names probably originate
– Баян Купи-ка
8 hours ago
Concerning the letter цы, I found this: В церковно- и старославянской азбуках именуется «цы» (ц.-с.) или «ци» (с.-с.), смысл которых не совсем понятен. Его относят: к форме имен. пад. мн. ч. мужского рода «ции» — от «кыи» — относительного и вопросительного местоимения (который, какой); к древнерусскому союзу «ци» («или», «верно ли, что», «разве»), соответствующему украинскому современному «чи»; имеются и иные версии. So it may have been a Slavic word, too.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
Actually nobody knows for sure. What we definitely know - it has nothing to do with obscene хер
. Well, only in that sense that obscene "хер" might be a derivative from the letter as an euphemism of "хуй". It also sound similar to other derivative - хрен
.
Even more - there's a totally non-obscene verb похерить
which means to obliterate, to cancel out, figuratively - to lose something.
Here's a quote from wikipedia:
В старо- и церковнославянской азбуках носит название «хѣръ», смысл
которого не ясен: считать его, как это часто делается, связанным со
словом «херувим» затруднительно (последнее не содержало ятя, хотя в
качестве фонетической адаптации мягких заднеязычных ять мог иногда
появляться в заимствованиях, например, известны написания вроде
Гѣръманъ)
One alternative definition we can find in Max Fasmer's famous dictionary:
Кроме того, допускают происхождение из греч. χαῖρε "привет тебе"
Keep in mind, however, that this dictionary is as much famous as in some aspects quite obsolete.
As a side note: while the majority of Cyrillic letters indeed have names that are basically valid Slavic words - even рцы
- which is not that obvious for modern Russian speaker - still, there are some letters named not after any word - like цы
for instance.
Thanks a lot. I was aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the alphabet abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. I am almost sure that хѣръ had ist own meaning in Old Russian. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. I asked my question because I want to find what that meaning was :)
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko I've added yet another alternative version however I have to disappoint you - it's very unlikely it have anything to do with any Slavic root - it's not supported by any evidence.
– shabunc♦
8 hours ago
My impression is that the very idea of such letter names was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko i'm believe херувим is a Christian backronym, so to speak, for the letter's name, a name of no other letter comes from religious vocabulary, and its name might have had a meaning already in Old Slavonic where the letters names probably originate
– Баян Купи-ка
8 hours ago
Concerning the letter цы, I found this: В церковно- и старославянской азбуках именуется «цы» (ц.-с.) или «ци» (с.-с.), смысл которых не совсем понятен. Его относят: к форме имен. пад. мн. ч. мужского рода «ции» — от «кыи» — относительного и вопросительного местоимения (который, какой); к древнерусскому союзу «ци» («или», «верно ли, что», «разве»), соответствующему украинскому современному «чи»; имеются и иные версии. So it may have been a Slavic word, too.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
Actually nobody knows for sure. What we definitely know - it has nothing to do with obscene хер
. Well, only in that sense that obscene "хер" might be a derivative from the letter as an euphemism of "хуй". It also sound similar to other derivative - хрен
.
Even more - there's a totally non-obscene verb похерить
which means to obliterate, to cancel out, figuratively - to lose something.
Here's a quote from wikipedia:
В старо- и церковнославянской азбуках носит название «хѣръ», смысл
которого не ясен: считать его, как это часто делается, связанным со
словом «херувим» затруднительно (последнее не содержало ятя, хотя в
качестве фонетической адаптации мягких заднеязычных ять мог иногда
появляться в заимствованиях, например, известны написания вроде
Гѣръманъ)
One alternative definition we can find in Max Fasmer's famous dictionary:
Кроме того, допускают происхождение из греч. χαῖρε "привет тебе"
Keep in mind, however, that this dictionary is as much famous as in some aspects quite obsolete.
As a side note: while the majority of Cyrillic letters indeed have names that are basically valid Slavic words - even рцы
- which is not that obvious for modern Russian speaker - still, there are some letters named not after any word - like цы
for instance.
Actually nobody knows for sure. What we definitely know - it has nothing to do with obscene хер
. Well, only in that sense that obscene "хер" might be a derivative from the letter as an euphemism of "хуй". It also sound similar to other derivative - хрен
.
Even more - there's a totally non-obscene verb похерить
which means to obliterate, to cancel out, figuratively - to lose something.
Here's a quote from wikipedia:
В старо- и церковнославянской азбуках носит название «хѣръ», смысл
которого не ясен: считать его, как это часто делается, связанным со
словом «херувим» затруднительно (последнее не содержало ятя, хотя в
качестве фонетической адаптации мягких заднеязычных ять мог иногда
появляться в заимствованиях, например, известны написания вроде
Гѣръманъ)
One alternative definition we can find in Max Fasmer's famous dictionary:
Кроме того, допускают происхождение из греч. χαῖρε "привет тебе"
Keep in mind, however, that this dictionary is as much famous as in some aspects quite obsolete.
As a side note: while the majority of Cyrillic letters indeed have names that are basically valid Slavic words - even рцы
- which is not that obvious for modern Russian speaker - still, there are some letters named not after any word - like цы
for instance.
edited 8 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
shabunc♦shabunc
24k4 gold badges55 silver badges105 bronze badges
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Thanks a lot. I was aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the alphabet abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. I am almost sure that хѣръ had ist own meaning in Old Russian. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. I asked my question because I want to find what that meaning was :)
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko I've added yet another alternative version however I have to disappoint you - it's very unlikely it have anything to do with any Slavic root - it's not supported by any evidence.
– shabunc♦
8 hours ago
My impression is that the very idea of such letter names was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko i'm believe херувим is a Christian backronym, so to speak, for the letter's name, a name of no other letter comes from religious vocabulary, and its name might have had a meaning already in Old Slavonic where the letters names probably originate
– Баян Купи-ка
8 hours ago
Concerning the letter цы, I found this: В церковно- и старославянской азбуках именуется «цы» (ц.-с.) или «ци» (с.-с.), смысл которых не совсем понятен. Его относят: к форме имен. пад. мн. ч. мужского рода «ции» — от «кыи» — относительного и вопросительного местоимения (который, какой); к древнерусскому союзу «ци» («или», «верно ли, что», «разве»), соответствующему украинскому современному «чи»; имеются и иные версии. So it may have been a Slavic word, too.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
Thanks a lot. I was aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the alphabet abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. I am almost sure that хѣръ had ist own meaning in Old Russian. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. I asked my question because I want to find what that meaning was :)
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko I've added yet another alternative version however I have to disappoint you - it's very unlikely it have anything to do with any Slavic root - it's not supported by any evidence.
– shabunc♦
8 hours ago
My impression is that the very idea of such letter names was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko i'm believe херувим is a Christian backronym, so to speak, for the letter's name, a name of no other letter comes from religious vocabulary, and its name might have had a meaning already in Old Slavonic where the letters names probably originate
– Баян Купи-ка
8 hours ago
Concerning the letter цы, I found this: В церковно- и старославянской азбуках именуется «цы» (ц.-с.) или «ци» (с.-с.), смысл которых не совсем понятен. Его относят: к форме имен. пад. мн. ч. мужского рода «ции» — от «кыи» — относительного и вопросительного местоимения (который, какой); к древнерусскому союзу «ци» («или», «верно ли, что», «разве»), соответствующему украинскому современному «чи»; имеются и иные версии. So it may have been a Slavic word, too.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
Thanks a lot. I was aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the alphabet abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. I am almost sure that хѣръ had ist own meaning in Old Russian. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. I asked my question because I want to find what that meaning was :)
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
Thanks a lot. I was aware of the херувим hypothesis and strongly dislike it, for the old names of Russian letters are generally complete and are not abbreviations: живѣ́те, глаголь, мыслѣ́те. It is hard to imagine that the authors of the alphabet abbreviated херувим, because this word has the same number of syllables as живѣ́те and мыслѣ́те, which were not abbreviated. I am almost sure that хѣръ had ist own meaning in Old Russian. Some mysterious forgotten meaning. I asked my question because I want to find what that meaning was :)
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko I've added yet another alternative version however I have to disappoint you - it's very unlikely it have anything to do with any Slavic root - it's not supported by any evidence.
– shabunc♦
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko I've added yet another alternative version however I have to disappoint you - it's very unlikely it have anything to do with any Slavic root - it's not supported by any evidence.
– shabunc♦
8 hours ago
My impression is that the very idea of such letter names was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
My impression is that the very idea of such letter names was to provide a complete word that starts with a given letter. Abbreviating a word to something unrecognizable is just contrary to the spirit of the old names of Russian letters.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko i'm believe херувим is a Christian backronym, so to speak, for the letter's name, a name of no other letter comes from religious vocabulary, and its name might have had a meaning already in Old Slavonic where the letters names probably originate
– Баян Купи-ка
8 hours ago
@Mitsuko i'm believe херувим is a Christian backronym, so to speak, for the letter's name, a name of no other letter comes from religious vocabulary, and its name might have had a meaning already in Old Slavonic where the letters names probably originate
– Баян Купи-ка
8 hours ago
Concerning the letter цы, I found this: В церковно- и старославянской азбуках именуется «цы» (ц.-с.) или «ци» (с.-с.), смысл которых не совсем понятен. Его относят: к форме имен. пад. мн. ч. мужского рода «ции» — от «кыи» — относительного и вопросительного местоимения (который, какой); к древнерусскому союзу «ци» («или», «верно ли, что», «разве»), соответствующему украинскому современному «чи»; имеются и иные версии. So it may have been a Slavic word, too.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
Concerning the letter цы, I found this: В церковно- и старославянской азбуках именуется «цы» (ц.-с.) или «ци» (с.-с.), смысл которых не совсем понятен. Его относят: к форме имен. пад. мн. ч. мужского рода «ции» — от «кыи» — относительного и вопросительного местоимения (который, какой); к древнерусскому союзу «ци» («или», «верно ли, что», «разве»), соответствующему украинскому современному «чи»; имеются и иные версии. So it may have been a Slavic word, too.
– Mitsuko
8 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
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It's the shortest question of this author! )))))
– Elena
9 hours ago