Every infinite linearly ordered set has two disjoint infinite subsetsWith Choice, is any linearly ordered set well-ordered if no subset has order type $omega^*$?Prove that for any infinite poset there is an infinite subset which is either linearly ordered or antichain.Proving implication on well ordered set implies ACEvery linearly ordered subset $mathcalA$ of a set $mathcalW$ of well orderings $leq$ on subsets of some set $X$ has an upper bound.Set Theory: Fully ordered but not well ordered set proofUnderstanding Zorn's lemma xxWhy is “totally ordered” necessary in this implication of the Axiom of FoundationEquivalent Definition of Well-Ordered SetEquivalence of two statements on an arbitrary partially ordered set $(A, <)$For- and backwards well-ordered set is finite.

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Every infinite linearly ordered set has two disjoint infinite subsets


With Choice, is any linearly ordered set well-ordered if no subset has order type $omega^*$?Prove that for any infinite poset there is an infinite subset which is either linearly ordered or antichain.Proving implication on well ordered set implies ACEvery linearly ordered subset $mathcalA$ of a set $mathcalW$ of well orderings $leq$ on subsets of some set $X$ has an upper bound.Set Theory: Fully ordered but not well ordered set proofUnderstanding Zorn's lemma xxWhy is “totally ordered” necessary in this implication of the Axiom of FoundationEquivalent Definition of Well-Ordered SetEquivalence of two statements on an arbitrary partially ordered set $(A, <)$For- and backwards well-ordered set is finite.






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1












$begingroup$


According to the Wikipedia Page on amorphous sets, no amorphous set can be totally ordered. If I am correct, this states that every infinite totally ordered set has two disjoint infinite subsets, but I am not sure how to go about proving it in ZF (if it is even provable in ZF), although here's my attempt:



Every infinite totally ordered set $S$ has either an infinitely decreasing or infinitely increasing subset, so I tried considering such a subset $A$. Without loss of generality, suppose $A$ is increasing. Then, letting $a_1$ be an element in $A$, the set $A_1:=ain Amid a>a_1$ is infinite and thus non-empty. Now, let $a_2$ be an element of $ain A$. Since $a_2in A$, the set $A_2:=ain Amid a>a_2$ is nonempty, and we can continue in this way to generate a sequence $a_1,a_2,dots$.



My problem is that I rather suspect I just used the axiom of countable choice if not something stronger. Is there a way of proving this in ZF alone?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What does "infinitely decreasing subset" mean for a set that might be amorphous? Such sets son't even have infinite sequences of their elements, so you can't be talking of whether such a sequence is decreasing...
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Hmm, on further thought what you probably mean there is "a subset with no least element" instead of "infinitely decreasing". Then the rest of the argument does make sense. (But I'm not sure the existence of such a set doesn't itself require some form of choice).
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    What is an example of amorphous set?
    $endgroup$
    – mathpadawan
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @mathpadawan According to Wikipedia: “Fraenkel constructed a permutation model of ZFA in which the set of atoms is amorphous.”
    $endgroup$
    – P-addict
    1 hour ago

















1












$begingroup$


According to the Wikipedia Page on amorphous sets, no amorphous set can be totally ordered. If I am correct, this states that every infinite totally ordered set has two disjoint infinite subsets, but I am not sure how to go about proving it in ZF (if it is even provable in ZF), although here's my attempt:



Every infinite totally ordered set $S$ has either an infinitely decreasing or infinitely increasing subset, so I tried considering such a subset $A$. Without loss of generality, suppose $A$ is increasing. Then, letting $a_1$ be an element in $A$, the set $A_1:=ain Amid a>a_1$ is infinite and thus non-empty. Now, let $a_2$ be an element of $ain A$. Since $a_2in A$, the set $A_2:=ain Amid a>a_2$ is nonempty, and we can continue in this way to generate a sequence $a_1,a_2,dots$.



My problem is that I rather suspect I just used the axiom of countable choice if not something stronger. Is there a way of proving this in ZF alone?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What does "infinitely decreasing subset" mean for a set that might be amorphous? Such sets son't even have infinite sequences of their elements, so you can't be talking of whether such a sequence is decreasing...
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Hmm, on further thought what you probably mean there is "a subset with no least element" instead of "infinitely decreasing". Then the rest of the argument does make sense. (But I'm not sure the existence of such a set doesn't itself require some form of choice).
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    What is an example of amorphous set?
    $endgroup$
    – mathpadawan
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @mathpadawan According to Wikipedia: “Fraenkel constructed a permutation model of ZFA in which the set of atoms is amorphous.”
    $endgroup$
    – P-addict
    1 hour ago













1












1








1


1



$begingroup$


According to the Wikipedia Page on amorphous sets, no amorphous set can be totally ordered. If I am correct, this states that every infinite totally ordered set has two disjoint infinite subsets, but I am not sure how to go about proving it in ZF (if it is even provable in ZF), although here's my attempt:



Every infinite totally ordered set $S$ has either an infinitely decreasing or infinitely increasing subset, so I tried considering such a subset $A$. Without loss of generality, suppose $A$ is increasing. Then, letting $a_1$ be an element in $A$, the set $A_1:=ain Amid a>a_1$ is infinite and thus non-empty. Now, let $a_2$ be an element of $ain A$. Since $a_2in A$, the set $A_2:=ain Amid a>a_2$ is nonempty, and we can continue in this way to generate a sequence $a_1,a_2,dots$.



My problem is that I rather suspect I just used the axiom of countable choice if not something stronger. Is there a way of proving this in ZF alone?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




According to the Wikipedia Page on amorphous sets, no amorphous set can be totally ordered. If I am correct, this states that every infinite totally ordered set has two disjoint infinite subsets, but I am not sure how to go about proving it in ZF (if it is even provable in ZF), although here's my attempt:



Every infinite totally ordered set $S$ has either an infinitely decreasing or infinitely increasing subset, so I tried considering such a subset $A$. Without loss of generality, suppose $A$ is increasing. Then, letting $a_1$ be an element in $A$, the set $A_1:=ain Amid a>a_1$ is infinite and thus non-empty. Now, let $a_2$ be an element of $ain A$. Since $a_2in A$, the set $A_2:=ain Amid a>a_2$ is nonempty, and we can continue in this way to generate a sequence $a_1,a_2,dots$.



My problem is that I rather suspect I just used the axiom of countable choice if not something stronger. Is there a way of proving this in ZF alone?







elementary-set-theory






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked 9 hours ago









P-addictP-addict

374 bronze badges




374 bronze badges







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What does "infinitely decreasing subset" mean for a set that might be amorphous? Such sets son't even have infinite sequences of their elements, so you can't be talking of whether such a sequence is decreasing...
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Hmm, on further thought what you probably mean there is "a subset with no least element" instead of "infinitely decreasing". Then the rest of the argument does make sense. (But I'm not sure the existence of such a set doesn't itself require some form of choice).
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    What is an example of amorphous set?
    $endgroup$
    – mathpadawan
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @mathpadawan According to Wikipedia: “Fraenkel constructed a permutation model of ZFA in which the set of atoms is amorphous.”
    $endgroup$
    – P-addict
    1 hour ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What does "infinitely decreasing subset" mean for a set that might be amorphous? Such sets son't even have infinite sequences of their elements, so you can't be talking of whether such a sequence is decreasing...
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Hmm, on further thought what you probably mean there is "a subset with no least element" instead of "infinitely decreasing". Then the rest of the argument does make sense. (But I'm not sure the existence of such a set doesn't itself require some form of choice).
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    What is an example of amorphous set?
    $endgroup$
    – mathpadawan
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @mathpadawan According to Wikipedia: “Fraenkel constructed a permutation model of ZFA in which the set of atoms is amorphous.”
    $endgroup$
    – P-addict
    1 hour ago







2




2




$begingroup$
What does "infinitely decreasing subset" mean for a set that might be amorphous? Such sets son't even have infinite sequences of their elements, so you can't be talking of whether such a sequence is decreasing...
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
9 hours ago




$begingroup$
What does "infinitely decreasing subset" mean for a set that might be amorphous? Such sets son't even have infinite sequences of their elements, so you can't be talking of whether such a sequence is decreasing...
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
9 hours ago












$begingroup$
Hmm, on further thought what you probably mean there is "a subset with no least element" instead of "infinitely decreasing". Then the rest of the argument does make sense. (But I'm not sure the existence of such a set doesn't itself require some form of choice).
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
Hmm, on further thought what you probably mean there is "a subset with no least element" instead of "infinitely decreasing". Then the rest of the argument does make sense. (But I'm not sure the existence of such a set doesn't itself require some form of choice).
$endgroup$
– Henning Makholm
8 hours ago













$begingroup$
What is an example of amorphous set?
$endgroup$
– mathpadawan
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
What is an example of amorphous set?
$endgroup$
– mathpadawan
5 hours ago












$begingroup$
@mathpadawan According to Wikipedia: “Fraenkel constructed a permutation model of ZFA in which the set of atoms is amorphous.”
$endgroup$
– P-addict
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@mathpadawan According to Wikipedia: “Fraenkel constructed a permutation model of ZFA in which the set of atoms is amorphous.”
$endgroup$
– P-addict
1 hour ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

Your proof attempt does indeed depend not only on countable choice, but on dependent choice.



Here's an argument that doesn't:



Suppose $S$ is infinite and totally ordered. If we can find even one element that has both infinitely many predecessors and infinitely many successors, then $S$ is surely not amorphous.¹



Thus the elements of $S$ fall into two classes, namely those with only finitely many predecessors and those with only finitely many successors. At least one of those classes must be infinite; without loss of generality let's suppose that there are infinitely many elements that have finitely many predecessors.



However, in a total order there can be at most one element that has, for example, exactly 42 predecessors. So counting predecessors gives us an injection from an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$, which means that this subset is countable and $S$ is therefore not amorphous.




¹: Note that this apparently unassuming first step is in fact critical to the argument; without it everything unravels. It is consistent with ZF that there may be an infinite totally ordered set that has no countably infinite subset. (Cohen showed a model in which $mathbb R$, definitely totally orderable, has a subset with this property.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    +1 (I was still typing when this appeared.)
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas Blass
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AndreasBlass: It must be right if we both come up with it! :-)
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    And I approve of your answer and the one given by @Andreas. So it's probably correct. :P
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Just curious as I wanted to make one the other day, but couldn't find how: how did you do the footnote? Special symbol of sorts?
    $endgroup$
    – Henno Brandsma
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Henno: While not the same method as Henning (who used the "superscript 1" letter), I prefer to use <sup>1</sup>.
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    5 hours ago


















4












$begingroup$

Yes, this is provable in ZF. Let $S$ be an infinite linearly ordered set; I'll try to produce two disjoint, infinite subsets of $S$. First, for any $sin S$, consider the set $A_s$ of elements above $s$ in the linear ordering and the set $B_s$ of elements below $s$. If, for some $s$, both $A_s$ and $B_s$ are infinite, we're done, because they're certainly disjoint.



So from now on, we can assume that, for each $s$, one of $A_s$ and $B_s$ is finite (and the other must then be infinite because $S$ is infinite). Without loss of generality, assume there are infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite. (If that's not the case, then, as $S$ is infinite, there will be infinitely many $s$ with $A_s$ finite, and the following argument will apply to the reversed linear ordering.)



For each of the infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite, $|B_s|$ is a natural number, and these natural numbers are different for different $s$. So we have a one-to-one map $f:smapsto |B_s|$ of an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$. But the image of that map (which in fact is all of $mathbb N$ but I don't need that) can be split into two infinite pieces by taking alternating elements of it. The inverse images of those pieces under $f$ are two disjoint infinite subsets of $S$, as required.






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    2 Answers
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    active

    oldest

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    3












    $begingroup$

    Your proof attempt does indeed depend not only on countable choice, but on dependent choice.



    Here's an argument that doesn't:



    Suppose $S$ is infinite and totally ordered. If we can find even one element that has both infinitely many predecessors and infinitely many successors, then $S$ is surely not amorphous.¹



    Thus the elements of $S$ fall into two classes, namely those with only finitely many predecessors and those with only finitely many successors. At least one of those classes must be infinite; without loss of generality let's suppose that there are infinitely many elements that have finitely many predecessors.



    However, in a total order there can be at most one element that has, for example, exactly 42 predecessors. So counting predecessors gives us an injection from an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$, which means that this subset is countable and $S$ is therefore not amorphous.




    ¹: Note that this apparently unassuming first step is in fact critical to the argument; without it everything unravels. It is consistent with ZF that there may be an infinite totally ordered set that has no countably infinite subset. (Cohen showed a model in which $mathbb R$, definitely totally orderable, has a subset with this property.)






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      +1 (I was still typing when this appeared.)
      $endgroup$
      – Andreas Blass
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @AndreasBlass: It must be right if we both come up with it! :-)
      $endgroup$
      – Henning Makholm
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      And I approve of your answer and the one given by @Andreas. So it's probably correct. :P
      $endgroup$
      – Asaf Karagila
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Just curious as I wanted to make one the other day, but couldn't find how: how did you do the footnote? Special symbol of sorts?
      $endgroup$
      – Henno Brandsma
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Henno: While not the same method as Henning (who used the "superscript 1" letter), I prefer to use <sup>1</sup>.
      $endgroup$
      – Asaf Karagila
      5 hours ago















    3












    $begingroup$

    Your proof attempt does indeed depend not only on countable choice, but on dependent choice.



    Here's an argument that doesn't:



    Suppose $S$ is infinite and totally ordered. If we can find even one element that has both infinitely many predecessors and infinitely many successors, then $S$ is surely not amorphous.¹



    Thus the elements of $S$ fall into two classes, namely those with only finitely many predecessors and those with only finitely many successors. At least one of those classes must be infinite; without loss of generality let's suppose that there are infinitely many elements that have finitely many predecessors.



    However, in a total order there can be at most one element that has, for example, exactly 42 predecessors. So counting predecessors gives us an injection from an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$, which means that this subset is countable and $S$ is therefore not amorphous.




    ¹: Note that this apparently unassuming first step is in fact critical to the argument; without it everything unravels. It is consistent with ZF that there may be an infinite totally ordered set that has no countably infinite subset. (Cohen showed a model in which $mathbb R$, definitely totally orderable, has a subset with this property.)






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      +1 (I was still typing when this appeared.)
      $endgroup$
      – Andreas Blass
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @AndreasBlass: It must be right if we both come up with it! :-)
      $endgroup$
      – Henning Makholm
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      And I approve of your answer and the one given by @Andreas. So it's probably correct. :P
      $endgroup$
      – Asaf Karagila
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Just curious as I wanted to make one the other day, but couldn't find how: how did you do the footnote? Special symbol of sorts?
      $endgroup$
      – Henno Brandsma
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Henno: While not the same method as Henning (who used the "superscript 1" letter), I prefer to use <sup>1</sup>.
      $endgroup$
      – Asaf Karagila
      5 hours ago













    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$

    Your proof attempt does indeed depend not only on countable choice, but on dependent choice.



    Here's an argument that doesn't:



    Suppose $S$ is infinite and totally ordered. If we can find even one element that has both infinitely many predecessors and infinitely many successors, then $S$ is surely not amorphous.¹



    Thus the elements of $S$ fall into two classes, namely those with only finitely many predecessors and those with only finitely many successors. At least one of those classes must be infinite; without loss of generality let's suppose that there are infinitely many elements that have finitely many predecessors.



    However, in a total order there can be at most one element that has, for example, exactly 42 predecessors. So counting predecessors gives us an injection from an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$, which means that this subset is countable and $S$ is therefore not amorphous.




    ¹: Note that this apparently unassuming first step is in fact critical to the argument; without it everything unravels. It is consistent with ZF that there may be an infinite totally ordered set that has no countably infinite subset. (Cohen showed a model in which $mathbb R$, definitely totally orderable, has a subset with this property.)






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Your proof attempt does indeed depend not only on countable choice, but on dependent choice.



    Here's an argument that doesn't:



    Suppose $S$ is infinite and totally ordered. If we can find even one element that has both infinitely many predecessors and infinitely many successors, then $S$ is surely not amorphous.¹



    Thus the elements of $S$ fall into two classes, namely those with only finitely many predecessors and those with only finitely many successors. At least one of those classes must be infinite; without loss of generality let's suppose that there are infinitely many elements that have finitely many predecessors.



    However, in a total order there can be at most one element that has, for example, exactly 42 predecessors. So counting predecessors gives us an injection from an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$, which means that this subset is countable and $S$ is therefore not amorphous.




    ¹: Note that this apparently unassuming first step is in fact critical to the argument; without it everything unravels. It is consistent with ZF that there may be an infinite totally ordered set that has no countably infinite subset. (Cohen showed a model in which $mathbb R$, definitely totally orderable, has a subset with this property.)







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited 7 hours ago

























    answered 8 hours ago









    Henning MakholmHenning Makholm

    249k17 gold badges327 silver badges568 bronze badges




    249k17 gold badges327 silver badges568 bronze badges











    • $begingroup$
      +1 (I was still typing when this appeared.)
      $endgroup$
      – Andreas Blass
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @AndreasBlass: It must be right if we both come up with it! :-)
      $endgroup$
      – Henning Makholm
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      And I approve of your answer and the one given by @Andreas. So it's probably correct. :P
      $endgroup$
      – Asaf Karagila
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Just curious as I wanted to make one the other day, but couldn't find how: how did you do the footnote? Special symbol of sorts?
      $endgroup$
      – Henno Brandsma
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Henno: While not the same method as Henning (who used the "superscript 1" letter), I prefer to use <sup>1</sup>.
      $endgroup$
      – Asaf Karagila
      5 hours ago
















    • $begingroup$
      +1 (I was still typing when this appeared.)
      $endgroup$
      – Andreas Blass
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @AndreasBlass: It must be right if we both come up with it! :-)
      $endgroup$
      – Henning Makholm
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      And I approve of your answer and the one given by @Andreas. So it's probably correct. :P
      $endgroup$
      – Asaf Karagila
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Just curious as I wanted to make one the other day, but couldn't find how: how did you do the footnote? Special symbol of sorts?
      $endgroup$
      – Henno Brandsma
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Henno: While not the same method as Henning (who used the "superscript 1" letter), I prefer to use <sup>1</sup>.
      $endgroup$
      – Asaf Karagila
      5 hours ago















    $begingroup$
    +1 (I was still typing when this appeared.)
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas Blass
    8 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    +1 (I was still typing when this appeared.)
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas Blass
    8 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @AndreasBlass: It must be right if we both come up with it! :-)
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    8 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @AndreasBlass: It must be right if we both come up with it! :-)
    $endgroup$
    – Henning Makholm
    8 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    And I approve of your answer and the one given by @Andreas. So it's probably correct. :P
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    8 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    And I approve of your answer and the one given by @Andreas. So it's probably correct. :P
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    8 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    Just curious as I wanted to make one the other day, but couldn't find how: how did you do the footnote? Special symbol of sorts?
    $endgroup$
    – Henno Brandsma
    5 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Just curious as I wanted to make one the other day, but couldn't find how: how did you do the footnote? Special symbol of sorts?
    $endgroup$
    – Henno Brandsma
    5 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @Henno: While not the same method as Henning (who used the "superscript 1" letter), I prefer to use <sup>1</sup>.
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    5 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @Henno: While not the same method as Henning (who used the "superscript 1" letter), I prefer to use <sup>1</sup>.
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    5 hours ago













    4












    $begingroup$

    Yes, this is provable in ZF. Let $S$ be an infinite linearly ordered set; I'll try to produce two disjoint, infinite subsets of $S$. First, for any $sin S$, consider the set $A_s$ of elements above $s$ in the linear ordering and the set $B_s$ of elements below $s$. If, for some $s$, both $A_s$ and $B_s$ are infinite, we're done, because they're certainly disjoint.



    So from now on, we can assume that, for each $s$, one of $A_s$ and $B_s$ is finite (and the other must then be infinite because $S$ is infinite). Without loss of generality, assume there are infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite. (If that's not the case, then, as $S$ is infinite, there will be infinitely many $s$ with $A_s$ finite, and the following argument will apply to the reversed linear ordering.)



    For each of the infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite, $|B_s|$ is a natural number, and these natural numbers are different for different $s$. So we have a one-to-one map $f:smapsto |B_s|$ of an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$. But the image of that map (which in fact is all of $mathbb N$ but I don't need that) can be split into two infinite pieces by taking alternating elements of it. The inverse images of those pieces under $f$ are two disjoint infinite subsets of $S$, as required.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      4












      $begingroup$

      Yes, this is provable in ZF. Let $S$ be an infinite linearly ordered set; I'll try to produce two disjoint, infinite subsets of $S$. First, for any $sin S$, consider the set $A_s$ of elements above $s$ in the linear ordering and the set $B_s$ of elements below $s$. If, for some $s$, both $A_s$ and $B_s$ are infinite, we're done, because they're certainly disjoint.



      So from now on, we can assume that, for each $s$, one of $A_s$ and $B_s$ is finite (and the other must then be infinite because $S$ is infinite). Without loss of generality, assume there are infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite. (If that's not the case, then, as $S$ is infinite, there will be infinitely many $s$ with $A_s$ finite, and the following argument will apply to the reversed linear ordering.)



      For each of the infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite, $|B_s|$ is a natural number, and these natural numbers are different for different $s$. So we have a one-to-one map $f:smapsto |B_s|$ of an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$. But the image of that map (which in fact is all of $mathbb N$ but I don't need that) can be split into two infinite pieces by taking alternating elements of it. The inverse images of those pieces under $f$ are two disjoint infinite subsets of $S$, as required.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        4












        4








        4





        $begingroup$

        Yes, this is provable in ZF. Let $S$ be an infinite linearly ordered set; I'll try to produce two disjoint, infinite subsets of $S$. First, for any $sin S$, consider the set $A_s$ of elements above $s$ in the linear ordering and the set $B_s$ of elements below $s$. If, for some $s$, both $A_s$ and $B_s$ are infinite, we're done, because they're certainly disjoint.



        So from now on, we can assume that, for each $s$, one of $A_s$ and $B_s$ is finite (and the other must then be infinite because $S$ is infinite). Without loss of generality, assume there are infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite. (If that's not the case, then, as $S$ is infinite, there will be infinitely many $s$ with $A_s$ finite, and the following argument will apply to the reversed linear ordering.)



        For each of the infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite, $|B_s|$ is a natural number, and these natural numbers are different for different $s$. So we have a one-to-one map $f:smapsto |B_s|$ of an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$. But the image of that map (which in fact is all of $mathbb N$ but I don't need that) can be split into two infinite pieces by taking alternating elements of it. The inverse images of those pieces under $f$ are two disjoint infinite subsets of $S$, as required.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Yes, this is provable in ZF. Let $S$ be an infinite linearly ordered set; I'll try to produce two disjoint, infinite subsets of $S$. First, for any $sin S$, consider the set $A_s$ of elements above $s$ in the linear ordering and the set $B_s$ of elements below $s$. If, for some $s$, both $A_s$ and $B_s$ are infinite, we're done, because they're certainly disjoint.



        So from now on, we can assume that, for each $s$, one of $A_s$ and $B_s$ is finite (and the other must then be infinite because $S$ is infinite). Without loss of generality, assume there are infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite. (If that's not the case, then, as $S$ is infinite, there will be infinitely many $s$ with $A_s$ finite, and the following argument will apply to the reversed linear ordering.)



        For each of the infinitely many $s$ with $B_s$ finite, $|B_s|$ is a natural number, and these natural numbers are different for different $s$. So we have a one-to-one map $f:smapsto |B_s|$ of an infinite subset of $S$ into $mathbb N$. But the image of that map (which in fact is all of $mathbb N$ but I don't need that) can be split into two infinite pieces by taking alternating elements of it. The inverse images of those pieces under $f$ are two disjoint infinite subsets of $S$, as required.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered 8 hours ago









        Andreas BlassAndreas Blass

        51.7k4 gold badges53 silver badges113 bronze badges




        51.7k4 gold badges53 silver badges113 bronze badges



























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