Are game port joystick buttons ever more than plain switches? Is this one just faulty?Can I build a working(ish) vacuum tube byte?How to create a switchless multi-system 2 button Atari joystick?The almost-was Atari IBM PCConnecting Panasonic “Penwriter” RK-P400C to modern PC using USB to serial cableWhen did MS Windows get Dual Monitor support?Why are C64 games inconsistent with which joystick port they use?
What does "rel" in `mathrel` and `stackrel` stands for?
What should come first—characters or plot?
Where does learning new skills fit into Agile?
What do these commands specifically do?
Higman's lemma and a manuscript of Erdős and Rado
How does encoder decoder network works?
How is linear momentum conserved in case of a freely falling body?
Why do these two functions have the same bytecode when disassembled under dis.dis?
"There were either twelve sexes or none."
Discussing work with supervisor in an invited dinner with his family
about to retire but not retired yet, employed but not working any more
How were medieval castles built in swamps or marshes without draining them?
To get so rich that you are not in need of anymore money
What names do Cormyr's people use?
Semantic difference between regular and irregular 'backen'
How long do you think advanced cybernetic implants would plausibly last?
Ordering a list of integers
How can I download a file through 2 SSH connections?
What to look for in a spotting scope?
Breaker Mapping Questions
Why do banks “park” their money at the European Central Bank?
Why does Windows store Wi-Fi passwords in a reversible format?
Server Integrity Check CheckCommands question
Movie where people enter a church but find they can't leave, not in English
Are game port joystick buttons ever more than plain switches? Is this one just faulty?
Can I build a working(ish) vacuum tube byte?How to create a switchless multi-system 2 button Atari joystick?The almost-was Atari IBM PCConnecting Panasonic “Penwriter” RK-P400C to modern PC using USB to serial cableWhen did MS Windows get Dual Monitor support?Why are C64 games inconsistent with which joystick port they use?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
I'm building a custom interface unit for a game port joystick. To use/test it, I have a CH Products Mach III. (This is the IBM PC version, not the Apple version.) I purchased the joystick for this purpose and have not tested it with an original computer.
I found that the second button was registering as always-pressed. On investigation, there is a resistance of about 60 Ω between "button 2" pin 7 and "ground" pin 4 (pin 5 is absent from the plug) when the button is not pressed, <1 Ω when the button is pressed, and no connection between pin 7 and any other pin. Button 1 behaves more as expected, an open circuit when the button is not pressed.
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort, or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty? (It is not clear how to open the joystick to inspect the circuit, or I would have done this first. Perhaps I'll ask a separate question about that.)
I would ideally like to design the interface unit to accommodate as many joysticks as possible (including, possibly, Apple-style joysticks with an alternate socket), so I am preferably looking for expectations on button interfacing, perhaps with recommended (or historical) detection thresholds, not just information about this specific joystick.
ibm-pc joystick old-hardware-adaptation
asked 8 hours ago
Kevin ReidKevin Reid
1134 bronze badges
New contributor
Kevin Reid is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I'm building a custom interface unit for a game port joystick. To use/test it, I have a CH Products Mach III. (This is the IBM PC version, not the Apple version.) I purchased the joystick for this purpose and have not tested it with an original computer.
I found that the second button was registering as always-pressed. On investigation, there is a resistance of about 60 Ω between "button 2" pin 7 and "ground" pin 4 (pin 5 is absent from the plug) when the button is not pressed, <1 Ω when the button is pressed, and no connection between pin 7 and any other pin. Button 1 behaves more as expected, an open circuit when the button is not pressed.
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort, or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty? (It is not clear how to open the joystick to inspect the circuit, or I would have done this first. Perhaps I'll ask a separate question about that.)
I would ideally like to design the interface unit to accommodate as many joysticks as possible (including, possibly, Apple-style joysticks with an alternate socket), so I am preferably looking for expectations on button interfacing, perhaps with recommended (or historical) detection thresholds, not just information about this specific joystick.
ibm-pc joystick old-hardware-adaptation
asked 8 hours ago
Kevin ReidKevin Reid
1134 bronze badges
New contributor
Kevin Reid is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I'm building a custom interface unit for a game port joystick. To use/test it, I have a CH Products Mach III. (This is the IBM PC version, not the Apple version.) I purchased the joystick for this purpose and have not tested it with an original computer.
I found that the second button was registering as always-pressed. On investigation, there is a resistance of about 60 Ω between "button 2" pin 7 and "ground" pin 4 (pin 5 is absent from the plug) when the button is not pressed, <1 Ω when the button is pressed, and no connection between pin 7 and any other pin. Button 1 behaves more as expected, an open circuit when the button is not pressed.
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort, or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty? (It is not clear how to open the joystick to inspect the circuit, or I would have done this first. Perhaps I'll ask a separate question about that.)
I would ideally like to design the interface unit to accommodate as many joysticks as possible (including, possibly, Apple-style joysticks with an alternate socket), so I am preferably looking for expectations on button interfacing, perhaps with recommended (or historical) detection thresholds, not just information about this specific joystick.
ibm-pc joystick old-hardware-adaptation
asked 8 hours ago
Kevin ReidKevin Reid
1134 bronze badges
New contributor
Kevin Reid is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I'm building a custom interface unit for a game port joystick. To use/test it, I have a CH Products Mach III. (This is the IBM PC version, not the Apple version.) I purchased the joystick for this purpose and have not tested it with an original computer.
I found that the second button was registering as always-pressed. On investigation, there is a resistance of about 60 Ω between "button 2" pin 7 and "ground" pin 4 (pin 5 is absent from the plug) when the button is not pressed, <1 Ω when the button is pressed, and no connection between pin 7 and any other pin. Button 1 behaves more as expected, an open circuit when the button is not pressed.
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort, or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty? (It is not clear how to open the joystick to inspect the circuit, or I would have done this first. Perhaps I'll ask a separate question about that.)
I would ideally like to design the interface unit to accommodate as many joysticks as possible (including, possibly, Apple-style joysticks with an alternate socket), so I am preferably looking for expectations on button interfacing, perhaps with recommended (or historical) detection thresholds, not just information about this specific joystick.
ibm-pc joystick old-hardware-adaptation
ibm-pc joystick old-hardware-adaptation
asked 8 hours ago
Kevin ReidKevin Reid
1134 bronze badges
New contributor
Kevin Reid is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
Kevin ReidKevin Reid
1134 bronze badges
New contributor
Kevin Reid is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
Kevin ReidKevin Reid
1134 bronze badges
New contributor
Kevin Reid is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
Kevin ReidKevin Reid
1134 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Kevin ReidKevin Reid
1134 bronze badges
1134 bronze badges
New contributor
Kevin Reid is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Kevin Reid is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort,
No. Buttons are always on/off mechanics. The PC doesn't have any means to detect anything but high or low, according to the threshold (*1) the input circuit has (*2).
or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty?
Yes, a dirty switch, a used up one, a broken one, some bad soldering adding a bridge and so on.
P.S.: Here's a real nice detailed page about the GCA.
*1 - For the 74LS244, as used in the original IBM GCA, requires at least 2.0V to detect a high or less than 0.8V to detect low. Since all pullups are ~5 kOhm this means that a button (including all cabling) should have a resistance less than ~0.9 kOhm when closed and above ~4 kOhm when 'open'. So 60 Ohm for sure mean it's always detected as low or closed.
Of course these values may differ for any of the countless other game port inputs.
*2 - Of course, being a digital input, they could be used for some serial data transmission. But that's way beyond standard button usage.
edited 6 hours ago
manassehkatz
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
It would be electrically possible for a 60 Ohm resistor to be wired in parallel to the switch: that would produce the measurements obtained. There is no reason for this to be done though, as it wouldn't be compatible with the gameport standard (as explained).
– Kaz
7 hours ago
Not only they could be used for serial data transmission, they have been used for serial data transmission. "Digital" devices such as Logitech Wigman Extreme Digital used serial transmission to send pot and button readings and to support more pots and buttons than the standard interface.
– Justme
7 hours ago
1
some more advanced joysticks had Autorepeat circuitry on fire buttons ... so it could be a gate resistance instead of dirty switch ...
– Spektre
7 hours ago
@Justme I'm well aware of these - still they are not part of the question.
– Raffzahn
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "648"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Kevin Reid is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fretrocomputing.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f12148%2fare-game-port-joystick-buttons-ever-more-than-plain-switches-is-this-one-just-f%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort,
No. Buttons are always on/off mechanics. The PC doesn't have any means to detect anything but high or low, according to the threshold (*1) the input circuit has (*2).
or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty?
Yes, a dirty switch, a used up one, a broken one, some bad soldering adding a bridge and so on.
P.S.: Here's a real nice detailed page about the GCA.
*1 - For the 74LS244, as used in the original IBM GCA, requires at least 2.0V to detect a high or less than 0.8V to detect low. Since all pullups are ~5 kOhm this means that a button (including all cabling) should have a resistance less than ~0.9 kOhm when closed and above ~4 kOhm when 'open'. So 60 Ohm for sure mean it's always detected as low or closed.
Of course these values may differ for any of the countless other game port inputs.
*2 - Of course, being a digital input, they could be used for some serial data transmission. But that's way beyond standard button usage.
edited 6 hours ago
manassehkatz
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
It would be electrically possible for a 60 Ohm resistor to be wired in parallel to the switch: that would produce the measurements obtained. There is no reason for this to be done though, as it wouldn't be compatible with the gameport standard (as explained).
– Kaz
7 hours ago
Not only they could be used for serial data transmission, they have been used for serial data transmission. "Digital" devices such as Logitech Wigman Extreme Digital used serial transmission to send pot and button readings and to support more pots and buttons than the standard interface.
– Justme
7 hours ago
1
some more advanced joysticks had Autorepeat circuitry on fire buttons ... so it could be a gate resistance instead of dirty switch ...
– Spektre
7 hours ago
@Justme I'm well aware of these - still they are not part of the question.
– Raffzahn
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort,
No. Buttons are always on/off mechanics. The PC doesn't have any means to detect anything but high or low, according to the threshold (*1) the input circuit has (*2).
or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty?
Yes, a dirty switch, a used up one, a broken one, some bad soldering adding a bridge and so on.
P.S.: Here's a real nice detailed page about the GCA.
*1 - For the 74LS244, as used in the original IBM GCA, requires at least 2.0V to detect a high or less than 0.8V to detect low. Since all pullups are ~5 kOhm this means that a button (including all cabling) should have a resistance less than ~0.9 kOhm when closed and above ~4 kOhm when 'open'. So 60 Ohm for sure mean it's always detected as low or closed.
Of course these values may differ for any of the countless other game port inputs.
*2 - Of course, being a digital input, they could be used for some serial data transmission. But that's way beyond standard button usage.
edited 6 hours ago
manassehkatz
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
It would be electrically possible for a 60 Ohm resistor to be wired in parallel to the switch: that would produce the measurements obtained. There is no reason for this to be done though, as it wouldn't be compatible with the gameport standard (as explained).
– Kaz
7 hours ago
Not only they could be used for serial data transmission, they have been used for serial data transmission. "Digital" devices such as Logitech Wigman Extreme Digital used serial transmission to send pot and button readings and to support more pots and buttons than the standard interface.
– Justme
7 hours ago
1
some more advanced joysticks had Autorepeat circuitry on fire buttons ... so it could be a gate resistance instead of dirty switch ...
– Spektre
7 hours ago
@Justme I'm well aware of these - still they are not part of the question.
– Raffzahn
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort,
No. Buttons are always on/off mechanics. The PC doesn't have any means to detect anything but high or low, according to the threshold (*1) the input circuit has (*2).
or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty?
Yes, a dirty switch, a used up one, a broken one, some bad soldering adding a bridge and so on.
P.S.: Here's a real nice detailed page about the GCA.
*1 - For the 74LS244, as used in the original IBM GCA, requires at least 2.0V to detect a high or less than 0.8V to detect low. Since all pullups are ~5 kOhm this means that a button (including all cabling) should have a resistance less than ~0.9 kOhm when closed and above ~4 kOhm when 'open'. So 60 Ohm for sure mean it's always detected as low or closed.
Of course these values may differ for any of the countless other game port inputs.
*2 - Of course, being a digital input, they could be used for some serial data transmission. But that's way beyond standard button usage.
edited 6 hours ago
manassehkatz
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
Is this a special signaling mechanism of some sort,
No. Buttons are always on/off mechanics. The PC doesn't have any means to detect anything but high or low, according to the threshold (*1) the input circuit has (*2).
or does it merely indicate that the switch is dirty?
Yes, a dirty switch, a used up one, a broken one, some bad soldering adding a bridge and so on.
P.S.: Here's a real nice detailed page about the GCA.
*1 - For the 74LS244, as used in the original IBM GCA, requires at least 2.0V to detect a high or less than 0.8V to detect low. Since all pullups are ~5 kOhm this means that a button (including all cabling) should have a resistance less than ~0.9 kOhm when closed and above ~4 kOhm when 'open'. So 60 Ohm for sure mean it's always detected as low or closed.
Of course these values may differ for any of the countless other game port inputs.
*2 - Of course, being a digital input, they could be used for some serial data transmission. But that's way beyond standard button usage.
edited 6 hours ago
manassehkatz
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
edited 6 hours ago
manassehkatz
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
edited 6 hours ago
manassehkatz
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
edited 6 hours ago
manassehkatz
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
4,7071 gold badge11 silver badges31 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
RaffzahnRaffzahn
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
67.5k6 gold badges166 silver badges278 bronze badges
It would be electrically possible for a 60 Ohm resistor to be wired in parallel to the switch: that would produce the measurements obtained. There is no reason for this to be done though, as it wouldn't be compatible with the gameport standard (as explained).
– Kaz
7 hours ago
Not only they could be used for serial data transmission, they have been used for serial data transmission. "Digital" devices such as Logitech Wigman Extreme Digital used serial transmission to send pot and button readings and to support more pots and buttons than the standard interface.
– Justme
7 hours ago
1
some more advanced joysticks had Autorepeat circuitry on fire buttons ... so it could be a gate resistance instead of dirty switch ...
– Spektre
7 hours ago
@Justme I'm well aware of these - still they are not part of the question.
– Raffzahn
7 hours ago
add a comment |
It would be electrically possible for a 60 Ohm resistor to be wired in parallel to the switch: that would produce the measurements obtained. There is no reason for this to be done though, as it wouldn't be compatible with the gameport standard (as explained).
– Kaz
7 hours ago
Not only they could be used for serial data transmission, they have been used for serial data transmission. "Digital" devices such as Logitech Wigman Extreme Digital used serial transmission to send pot and button readings and to support more pots and buttons than the standard interface.
– Justme
7 hours ago
1
some more advanced joysticks had Autorepeat circuitry on fire buttons ... so it could be a gate resistance instead of dirty switch ...
– Spektre
7 hours ago
@Justme I'm well aware of these - still they are not part of the question.
– Raffzahn
7 hours ago
It would be electrically possible for a 60 Ohm resistor to be wired in parallel to the switch: that would produce the measurements obtained. There is no reason for this to be done though, as it wouldn't be compatible with the gameport standard (as explained).
– Kaz
7 hours ago
It would be electrically possible for a 60 Ohm resistor to be wired in parallel to the switch: that would produce the measurements obtained. There is no reason for this to be done though, as it wouldn't be compatible with the gameport standard (as explained).
– Kaz
7 hours ago
Not only they could be used for serial data transmission, they have been used for serial data transmission. "Digital" devices such as Logitech Wigman Extreme Digital used serial transmission to send pot and button readings and to support more pots and buttons than the standard interface.
– Justme
7 hours ago
Not only they could be used for serial data transmission, they have been used for serial data transmission. "Digital" devices such as Logitech Wigman Extreme Digital used serial transmission to send pot and button readings and to support more pots and buttons than the standard interface.
– Justme
7 hours ago
1
1
some more advanced joysticks had Autorepeat circuitry on fire buttons ... so it could be a gate resistance instead of dirty switch ...
– Spektre
7 hours ago
some more advanced joysticks had Autorepeat circuitry on fire buttons ... so it could be a gate resistance instead of dirty switch ...
– Spektre
7 hours ago
@Justme I'm well aware of these - still they are not part of the question.
– Raffzahn
7 hours ago
@Justme I'm well aware of these - still they are not part of the question.
– Raffzahn
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Kevin Reid is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Kevin Reid is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Kevin Reid is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Kevin Reid is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Retrocomputing Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fretrocomputing.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f12148%2fare-game-port-joystick-buttons-ever-more-than-plain-switches-is-this-one-just-f%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
