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Is adding a new player (or players) a DM decision, or a group decision?
The group I DM for insists on rolled stats, but I don't want unbalanced PCs to cause group conflicts laterHow do I explain D&D's rules, but you can do whatever you want, to new players?How can I Improve gameplay for new players, as a new player?New girl gamer in our D&D group is causing weird tension - what to do?PCs using disciplinary talk from DM as leverage, leading to group dysfunctionHow should I as a player, handle a character death from my fellow party membersHow to resolve fundamental differences in perspective between players and DM about the roles each has in decision making?Being an experienced player in a group of new onesWould adding daily rolls for insanity to Curse of Strahd be excessive for a party of 6?The other players in my D&D party keep ignoring me. How can I get the other players and DM to consider my input equally?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
We are a party of 5 (not including our DM) and we have been playing a campaign for about 2 months. The DM has mentioned the idea of adding some new players (potentially 3). He mentioned that he knew some mutual friends that wanted to start so he just brought it up in group text without asking.
I have a problem with it since I like the number of our current party. Should I offer putting it to a group vote or is it the DM’s right to add new players?
dnd-5e group-dynamics
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We are a party of 5 (not including our DM) and we have been playing a campaign for about 2 months. The DM has mentioned the idea of adding some new players (potentially 3). He mentioned that he knew some mutual friends that wanted to start so he just brought it up in group text without asking.
I have a problem with it since I like the number of our current party. Should I offer putting it to a group vote or is it the DM’s right to add new players?
dnd-5e group-dynamics
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but I would warn the DM that running D&D 5e with more than 5 or 6 is extremely taxing on the DM and slow paced, especially with regard to combat encounters. I personally would rather run two different campaigns on different nights than one giant group campaign.
$endgroup$
– Renegade
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We are a party of 5 (not including our DM) and we have been playing a campaign for about 2 months. The DM has mentioned the idea of adding some new players (potentially 3). He mentioned that he knew some mutual friends that wanted to start so he just brought it up in group text without asking.
I have a problem with it since I like the number of our current party. Should I offer putting it to a group vote or is it the DM’s right to add new players?
dnd-5e group-dynamics
$endgroup$
We are a party of 5 (not including our DM) and we have been playing a campaign for about 2 months. The DM has mentioned the idea of adding some new players (potentially 3). He mentioned that he knew some mutual friends that wanted to start so he just brought it up in group text without asking.
I have a problem with it since I like the number of our current party. Should I offer putting it to a group vote or is it the DM’s right to add new players?
dnd-5e group-dynamics
dnd-5e group-dynamics
edited 9 hours ago
Rubiksmoose♦
68.9k11 gold badges339 silver badges491 bronze badges
68.9k11 gold badges339 silver badges491 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Undead-bedheadUndead-bedhead
8716 silver badges23 bronze badges
8716 silver badges23 bronze badges
3
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but I would warn the DM that running D&D 5e with more than 5 or 6 is extremely taxing on the DM and slow paced, especially with regard to combat encounters. I personally would rather run two different campaigns on different nights than one giant group campaign.
$endgroup$
– Renegade
9 hours ago
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but I would warn the DM that running D&D 5e with more than 5 or 6 is extremely taxing on the DM and slow paced, especially with regard to combat encounters. I personally would rather run two different campaigns on different nights than one giant group campaign.
$endgroup$
– Renegade
9 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but I would warn the DM that running D&D 5e with more than 5 or 6 is extremely taxing on the DM and slow paced, especially with regard to combat encounters. I personally would rather run two different campaigns on different nights than one giant group campaign.
$endgroup$
– Renegade
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but I would warn the DM that running D&D 5e with more than 5 or 6 is extremely taxing on the DM and slow paced, especially with regard to combat encounters. I personally would rather run two different campaigns on different nights than one giant group campaign.
$endgroup$
– Renegade
9 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Adding new players should be a group decision
When you form a gaming group and begin playing a game, the DM often gets some sort of authority given to them by the game. However, the DM does not (and should not) run the gaming group — the group does. They have just as much (but no more) say in group-affecting decisions as every other member of the group.
Just because someone is the DM doesn't automatically give them the right to add (or remove) players without consulting the group just as it doesn't give them the right to arbitrarily change the location and time of game night, the type and presence of food at the table, or any other out of the game details.
Now you could give the DM this authority, but that would have to be something the group cedes to the DM, not something automatically given to them without discussion. If you haven't had that discussion explicitly, then they can't and shouldn't be making this (or any) decision for the group.
You should talk to the DM about this as soon as you can, not just for the sake of your current group size, but because a DM that thinks they can add players at will without asking may have a completely different view of their role at the table than you and the rest of the group.
Experience
I've been in the position of DM and player both as a person suggesting someone new to the table and as someone who was concerned about another proposal to add a player. So, I speak with experience when I say that discussing this as a group is the way to go (and that not talking with the group is asking for trouble).
We've had some times where discussion with the group brought up and nipped some serious issues in the bud. For example, one time the DM wanted to invite a player that not only was (unbeknownst to them) extremely insulting to several other members of the table, but would also have introduced logistical issues that would have negatively affected everyone. In the end, we talked it out as a group and decided not to add the person. I firmly believe that had the DM added this person without consulting us not only would it have been a huge breach of our trust, but it would have killed our group.
We've also had much more positive experiences where everyone talked over and decided to let another person in.
Large groups are not easy
Completely aside from the issue of who gets to decide who plays at the table, the number of players can drastically affect how the game goes. Larger groups amplify many of the problems that small groups already experience and can bring some completely new ones to the table as well. If the players and DM aren't experienced this can (but doesn't necessarily have to) be a recipe for unfun to happen.
I've played with more and I've played with less. There's no perfect number for every table, but you have a right and foundation on which you can base your concerns about adding people and you should definitely bring them up to your DM.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Up to the group
This isn't something where DM fiat applies, because it concerns the makeup of your group, not the game world or the rules. Some groups have the DM run all the organisational stuff on their own, including finding players and things like that, but having the situation be like that is still a social agreement between the group not something inherent to the position of DM.
You should talk to the rest of the group about you being uncomfortable with more players being added.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
I'd add that if someone other than the DM wants to add people to the group, and the DM is not happy, they should not be forced to take them. But that isn't your current situation.
$endgroup$
– John Dallman
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, a game consists of one DM deciding to run a game, and one or more players showing up to play. In general, DMs are a lot harder to find than players are, and being the DM takes more work. If a player shows up or a player leaves, the game can continue. If the DM leaves, the game almost always collapses unless someone else steps up.
That doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't or shouldn't matter. You can and should make your concerns known. Among other things, parties of more than 5 players start to have serious bloat issues (sometimes even before that) that your DM might not be taking into account. Also, if your group has agreed on rules about who can join and when, or how major decisions are made (it sounds like they haven't), then those might apply. Finally, and most importantly, a good DM will at least listen to their players and pay attention to their concerns. Games work much better if everyone is getting along, and the DM is the one with the greatest influence on party harmony - and thus has a larger slice of the responsibility in that area.
At the same time, if your gaming space is like the gaming spaces I play in, the DM really is the one with the soft power. The worst you can do if you are unsatisfied is leave, and the very nature of the question suggests that he has at least three other players who'd love to take your place. Trying to put it to a vote is effectively running a power play with power you don't have. Suppose you do "put it to a vote", and then the DM says "I'm going to do it anyway." What are you going to do? What do you have to back this up?
Basically, your best bet (and one that might still fail) is to talk with him and try to convince him. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to bring in the the other members of the party. If the other players agree with you, that will likely make for a more compelling argument. At the same time, trying to wield power you don't actually have is at least as likely to backfire as anything else. I wouldn't suggest it.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
+1, as the one running the game the DM is “more equal than the rest.”
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's best to work it out as a group, with the DM having the same say as the players. If it can't be worked out as a group, there's a hierarchy of "who matters" in the answer.
Host > DM > Players
In the end the Host has the final say because, well, its the host's place. The DM has second priority because they are running the game. Adding players can mess up a lot for a DM, especially if they already feel the group is too large to handle. Players have the lowest priority because they just show up to play without putting in much out of session work.
Some of the comments have suggested the DM have more power than the host to add players. Whereas I do see the point that DMing an extra player is hard, it's really not the DM's place to tell the host "You can't do what you want to in your own house." The DM could always say something like, "I can't DM for any more people, would you be able to DM?" There's also the option of finding another place to host it. This solution is far from optimal.
And again, it's best if the group as a whole can make the decision to add someone in.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Though there’s a little asymmetry right... I agree with your hierarchy in terms of kicking someone, but does it work in terms of adding someone?
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Certainly - if the host doesn't want an extra person in their house their say is final. As an example, I have 2 kids who are asleep during D&D. The house needs to stay quiet, so a small group is necessary. As a DM I've been at 7 people before and they wanted to add two more people. The group of 7 was barely manageable, so I told them we couldn't do it. And as a player, well, you should just be thankful to have a group. But really, coming to a group consensus is much better, but if needed, follow that hierarchy.
$endgroup$
– Nick Tydryszewski
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think you should add a caveat that a Host can't add a player without the DM's approval. Adding players creates a lot of work for the DM and if they aren't comfortable with it they shouldn't be added.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Changing DM because the host added a player isn't adding a player to the game. It's starting a new game. Do you have experience as a DM where you have added players? I think your answer is underestimating the work that this puts on a DM. I agree that the host should have a significant voice, but the DM should be allowed to say no.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
54 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
Ultimately... I don't think this "hierarchy" really exists as you put it, because a decision by any of the entities can be "vetoed" by the others. If the host decides something the others don't like, the game can be hosted elsewhere; if the DM decides something and refuses to budge if the players don't like it, the players can find a new DM or a player can decide to DM themselves; if a player does something unacceptable and the DM/other players don't like it, they can leave or eject the unwanted player. Even if some of these solutions are "suboptimal", that's already the worst-case scenario.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast♦
54 mins ago
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
4
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$begingroup$
Adding new players should be a group decision
When you form a gaming group and begin playing a game, the DM often gets some sort of authority given to them by the game. However, the DM does not (and should not) run the gaming group — the group does. They have just as much (but no more) say in group-affecting decisions as every other member of the group.
Just because someone is the DM doesn't automatically give them the right to add (or remove) players without consulting the group just as it doesn't give them the right to arbitrarily change the location and time of game night, the type and presence of food at the table, or any other out of the game details.
Now you could give the DM this authority, but that would have to be something the group cedes to the DM, not something automatically given to them without discussion. If you haven't had that discussion explicitly, then they can't and shouldn't be making this (or any) decision for the group.
You should talk to the DM about this as soon as you can, not just for the sake of your current group size, but because a DM that thinks they can add players at will without asking may have a completely different view of their role at the table than you and the rest of the group.
Experience
I've been in the position of DM and player both as a person suggesting someone new to the table and as someone who was concerned about another proposal to add a player. So, I speak with experience when I say that discussing this as a group is the way to go (and that not talking with the group is asking for trouble).
We've had some times where discussion with the group brought up and nipped some serious issues in the bud. For example, one time the DM wanted to invite a player that not only was (unbeknownst to them) extremely insulting to several other members of the table, but would also have introduced logistical issues that would have negatively affected everyone. In the end, we talked it out as a group and decided not to add the person. I firmly believe that had the DM added this person without consulting us not only would it have been a huge breach of our trust, but it would have killed our group.
We've also had much more positive experiences where everyone talked over and decided to let another person in.
Large groups are not easy
Completely aside from the issue of who gets to decide who plays at the table, the number of players can drastically affect how the game goes. Larger groups amplify many of the problems that small groups already experience and can bring some completely new ones to the table as well. If the players and DM aren't experienced this can (but doesn't necessarily have to) be a recipe for unfun to happen.
I've played with more and I've played with less. There's no perfect number for every table, but you have a right and foundation on which you can base your concerns about adding people and you should definitely bring them up to your DM.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Adding new players should be a group decision
When you form a gaming group and begin playing a game, the DM often gets some sort of authority given to them by the game. However, the DM does not (and should not) run the gaming group — the group does. They have just as much (but no more) say in group-affecting decisions as every other member of the group.
Just because someone is the DM doesn't automatically give them the right to add (or remove) players without consulting the group just as it doesn't give them the right to arbitrarily change the location and time of game night, the type and presence of food at the table, or any other out of the game details.
Now you could give the DM this authority, but that would have to be something the group cedes to the DM, not something automatically given to them without discussion. If you haven't had that discussion explicitly, then they can't and shouldn't be making this (or any) decision for the group.
You should talk to the DM about this as soon as you can, not just for the sake of your current group size, but because a DM that thinks they can add players at will without asking may have a completely different view of their role at the table than you and the rest of the group.
Experience
I've been in the position of DM and player both as a person suggesting someone new to the table and as someone who was concerned about another proposal to add a player. So, I speak with experience when I say that discussing this as a group is the way to go (and that not talking with the group is asking for trouble).
We've had some times where discussion with the group brought up and nipped some serious issues in the bud. For example, one time the DM wanted to invite a player that not only was (unbeknownst to them) extremely insulting to several other members of the table, but would also have introduced logistical issues that would have negatively affected everyone. In the end, we talked it out as a group and decided not to add the person. I firmly believe that had the DM added this person without consulting us not only would it have been a huge breach of our trust, but it would have killed our group.
We've also had much more positive experiences where everyone talked over and decided to let another person in.
Large groups are not easy
Completely aside from the issue of who gets to decide who plays at the table, the number of players can drastically affect how the game goes. Larger groups amplify many of the problems that small groups already experience and can bring some completely new ones to the table as well. If the players and DM aren't experienced this can (but doesn't necessarily have to) be a recipe for unfun to happen.
I've played with more and I've played with less. There's no perfect number for every table, but you have a right and foundation on which you can base your concerns about adding people and you should definitely bring them up to your DM.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Adding new players should be a group decision
When you form a gaming group and begin playing a game, the DM often gets some sort of authority given to them by the game. However, the DM does not (and should not) run the gaming group — the group does. They have just as much (but no more) say in group-affecting decisions as every other member of the group.
Just because someone is the DM doesn't automatically give them the right to add (or remove) players without consulting the group just as it doesn't give them the right to arbitrarily change the location and time of game night, the type and presence of food at the table, or any other out of the game details.
Now you could give the DM this authority, but that would have to be something the group cedes to the DM, not something automatically given to them without discussion. If you haven't had that discussion explicitly, then they can't and shouldn't be making this (or any) decision for the group.
You should talk to the DM about this as soon as you can, not just for the sake of your current group size, but because a DM that thinks they can add players at will without asking may have a completely different view of their role at the table than you and the rest of the group.
Experience
I've been in the position of DM and player both as a person suggesting someone new to the table and as someone who was concerned about another proposal to add a player. So, I speak with experience when I say that discussing this as a group is the way to go (and that not talking with the group is asking for trouble).
We've had some times where discussion with the group brought up and nipped some serious issues in the bud. For example, one time the DM wanted to invite a player that not only was (unbeknownst to them) extremely insulting to several other members of the table, but would also have introduced logistical issues that would have negatively affected everyone. In the end, we talked it out as a group and decided not to add the person. I firmly believe that had the DM added this person without consulting us not only would it have been a huge breach of our trust, but it would have killed our group.
We've also had much more positive experiences where everyone talked over and decided to let another person in.
Large groups are not easy
Completely aside from the issue of who gets to decide who plays at the table, the number of players can drastically affect how the game goes. Larger groups amplify many of the problems that small groups already experience and can bring some completely new ones to the table as well. If the players and DM aren't experienced this can (but doesn't necessarily have to) be a recipe for unfun to happen.
I've played with more and I've played with less. There's no perfect number for every table, but you have a right and foundation on which you can base your concerns about adding people and you should definitely bring them up to your DM.
$endgroup$
Adding new players should be a group decision
When you form a gaming group and begin playing a game, the DM often gets some sort of authority given to them by the game. However, the DM does not (and should not) run the gaming group — the group does. They have just as much (but no more) say in group-affecting decisions as every other member of the group.
Just because someone is the DM doesn't automatically give them the right to add (or remove) players without consulting the group just as it doesn't give them the right to arbitrarily change the location and time of game night, the type and presence of food at the table, or any other out of the game details.
Now you could give the DM this authority, but that would have to be something the group cedes to the DM, not something automatically given to them without discussion. If you haven't had that discussion explicitly, then they can't and shouldn't be making this (or any) decision for the group.
You should talk to the DM about this as soon as you can, not just for the sake of your current group size, but because a DM that thinks they can add players at will without asking may have a completely different view of their role at the table than you and the rest of the group.
Experience
I've been in the position of DM and player both as a person suggesting someone new to the table and as someone who was concerned about another proposal to add a player. So, I speak with experience when I say that discussing this as a group is the way to go (and that not talking with the group is asking for trouble).
We've had some times where discussion with the group brought up and nipped some serious issues in the bud. For example, one time the DM wanted to invite a player that not only was (unbeknownst to them) extremely insulting to several other members of the table, but would also have introduced logistical issues that would have negatively affected everyone. In the end, we talked it out as a group and decided not to add the person. I firmly believe that had the DM added this person without consulting us not only would it have been a huge breach of our trust, but it would have killed our group.
We've also had much more positive experiences where everyone talked over and decided to let another person in.
Large groups are not easy
Completely aside from the issue of who gets to decide who plays at the table, the number of players can drastically affect how the game goes. Larger groups amplify many of the problems that small groups already experience and can bring some completely new ones to the table as well. If the players and DM aren't experienced this can (but doesn't necessarily have to) be a recipe for unfun to happen.
I've played with more and I've played with less. There's no perfect number for every table, but you have a right and foundation on which you can base your concerns about adding people and you should definitely bring them up to your DM.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Rubiksmoose♦Rubiksmoose
68.9k11 gold badges339 silver badges491 bronze badges
68.9k11 gold badges339 silver badges491 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Up to the group
This isn't something where DM fiat applies, because it concerns the makeup of your group, not the game world or the rules. Some groups have the DM run all the organisational stuff on their own, including finding players and things like that, but having the situation be like that is still a social agreement between the group not something inherent to the position of DM.
You should talk to the rest of the group about you being uncomfortable with more players being added.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
I'd add that if someone other than the DM wants to add people to the group, and the DM is not happy, they should not be forced to take them. But that isn't your current situation.
$endgroup$
– John Dallman
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Up to the group
This isn't something where DM fiat applies, because it concerns the makeup of your group, not the game world or the rules. Some groups have the DM run all the organisational stuff on their own, including finding players and things like that, but having the situation be like that is still a social agreement between the group not something inherent to the position of DM.
You should talk to the rest of the group about you being uncomfortable with more players being added.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
I'd add that if someone other than the DM wants to add people to the group, and the DM is not happy, they should not be forced to take them. But that isn't your current situation.
$endgroup$
– John Dallman
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Up to the group
This isn't something where DM fiat applies, because it concerns the makeup of your group, not the game world or the rules. Some groups have the DM run all the organisational stuff on their own, including finding players and things like that, but having the situation be like that is still a social agreement between the group not something inherent to the position of DM.
You should talk to the rest of the group about you being uncomfortable with more players being added.
$endgroup$
Up to the group
This isn't something where DM fiat applies, because it concerns the makeup of your group, not the game world or the rules. Some groups have the DM run all the organisational stuff on their own, including finding players and things like that, but having the situation be like that is still a social agreement between the group not something inherent to the position of DM.
You should talk to the rest of the group about you being uncomfortable with more players being added.
edited 7 hours ago
V2Blast♦
30.8k5 gold badges115 silver badges188 bronze badges
30.8k5 gold badges115 silver badges188 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
CubicCubic
1,2265 silver badges14 bronze badges
1,2265 silver badges14 bronze badges
3
$begingroup$
I'd add that if someone other than the DM wants to add people to the group, and the DM is not happy, they should not be forced to take them. But that isn't your current situation.
$endgroup$
– John Dallman
9 hours ago
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
I'd add that if someone other than the DM wants to add people to the group, and the DM is not happy, they should not be forced to take them. But that isn't your current situation.
$endgroup$
– John Dallman
9 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
I'd add that if someone other than the DM wants to add people to the group, and the DM is not happy, they should not be forced to take them. But that isn't your current situation.
$endgroup$
– John Dallman
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd add that if someone other than the DM wants to add people to the group, and the DM is not happy, they should not be forced to take them. But that isn't your current situation.
$endgroup$
– John Dallman
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, a game consists of one DM deciding to run a game, and one or more players showing up to play. In general, DMs are a lot harder to find than players are, and being the DM takes more work. If a player shows up or a player leaves, the game can continue. If the DM leaves, the game almost always collapses unless someone else steps up.
That doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't or shouldn't matter. You can and should make your concerns known. Among other things, parties of more than 5 players start to have serious bloat issues (sometimes even before that) that your DM might not be taking into account. Also, if your group has agreed on rules about who can join and when, or how major decisions are made (it sounds like they haven't), then those might apply. Finally, and most importantly, a good DM will at least listen to their players and pay attention to their concerns. Games work much better if everyone is getting along, and the DM is the one with the greatest influence on party harmony - and thus has a larger slice of the responsibility in that area.
At the same time, if your gaming space is like the gaming spaces I play in, the DM really is the one with the soft power. The worst you can do if you are unsatisfied is leave, and the very nature of the question suggests that he has at least three other players who'd love to take your place. Trying to put it to a vote is effectively running a power play with power you don't have. Suppose you do "put it to a vote", and then the DM says "I'm going to do it anyway." What are you going to do? What do you have to back this up?
Basically, your best bet (and one that might still fail) is to talk with him and try to convince him. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to bring in the the other members of the party. If the other players agree with you, that will likely make for a more compelling argument. At the same time, trying to wield power you don't actually have is at least as likely to backfire as anything else. I wouldn't suggest it.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
+1, as the one running the game the DM is “more equal than the rest.”
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, a game consists of one DM deciding to run a game, and one or more players showing up to play. In general, DMs are a lot harder to find than players are, and being the DM takes more work. If a player shows up or a player leaves, the game can continue. If the DM leaves, the game almost always collapses unless someone else steps up.
That doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't or shouldn't matter. You can and should make your concerns known. Among other things, parties of more than 5 players start to have serious bloat issues (sometimes even before that) that your DM might not be taking into account. Also, if your group has agreed on rules about who can join and when, or how major decisions are made (it sounds like they haven't), then those might apply. Finally, and most importantly, a good DM will at least listen to their players and pay attention to their concerns. Games work much better if everyone is getting along, and the DM is the one with the greatest influence on party harmony - and thus has a larger slice of the responsibility in that area.
At the same time, if your gaming space is like the gaming spaces I play in, the DM really is the one with the soft power. The worst you can do if you are unsatisfied is leave, and the very nature of the question suggests that he has at least three other players who'd love to take your place. Trying to put it to a vote is effectively running a power play with power you don't have. Suppose you do "put it to a vote", and then the DM says "I'm going to do it anyway." What are you going to do? What do you have to back this up?
Basically, your best bet (and one that might still fail) is to talk with him and try to convince him. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to bring in the the other members of the party. If the other players agree with you, that will likely make for a more compelling argument. At the same time, trying to wield power you don't actually have is at least as likely to backfire as anything else. I wouldn't suggest it.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
+1, as the one running the game the DM is “more equal than the rest.”
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, a game consists of one DM deciding to run a game, and one or more players showing up to play. In general, DMs are a lot harder to find than players are, and being the DM takes more work. If a player shows up or a player leaves, the game can continue. If the DM leaves, the game almost always collapses unless someone else steps up.
That doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't or shouldn't matter. You can and should make your concerns known. Among other things, parties of more than 5 players start to have serious bloat issues (sometimes even before that) that your DM might not be taking into account. Also, if your group has agreed on rules about who can join and when, or how major decisions are made (it sounds like they haven't), then those might apply. Finally, and most importantly, a good DM will at least listen to their players and pay attention to their concerns. Games work much better if everyone is getting along, and the DM is the one with the greatest influence on party harmony - and thus has a larger slice of the responsibility in that area.
At the same time, if your gaming space is like the gaming spaces I play in, the DM really is the one with the soft power. The worst you can do if you are unsatisfied is leave, and the very nature of the question suggests that he has at least three other players who'd love to take your place. Trying to put it to a vote is effectively running a power play with power you don't have. Suppose you do "put it to a vote", and then the DM says "I'm going to do it anyway." What are you going to do? What do you have to back this up?
Basically, your best bet (and one that might still fail) is to talk with him and try to convince him. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to bring in the the other members of the party. If the other players agree with you, that will likely make for a more compelling argument. At the same time, trying to wield power you don't actually have is at least as likely to backfire as anything else. I wouldn't suggest it.
$endgroup$
In general, a game consists of one DM deciding to run a game, and one or more players showing up to play. In general, DMs are a lot harder to find than players are, and being the DM takes more work. If a player shows up or a player leaves, the game can continue. If the DM leaves, the game almost always collapses unless someone else steps up.
That doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't or shouldn't matter. You can and should make your concerns known. Among other things, parties of more than 5 players start to have serious bloat issues (sometimes even before that) that your DM might not be taking into account. Also, if your group has agreed on rules about who can join and when, or how major decisions are made (it sounds like they haven't), then those might apply. Finally, and most importantly, a good DM will at least listen to their players and pay attention to their concerns. Games work much better if everyone is getting along, and the DM is the one with the greatest influence on party harmony - and thus has a larger slice of the responsibility in that area.
At the same time, if your gaming space is like the gaming spaces I play in, the DM really is the one with the soft power. The worst you can do if you are unsatisfied is leave, and the very nature of the question suggests that he has at least three other players who'd love to take your place. Trying to put it to a vote is effectively running a power play with power you don't have. Suppose you do "put it to a vote", and then the DM says "I'm going to do it anyway." What are you going to do? What do you have to back this up?
Basically, your best bet (and one that might still fail) is to talk with him and try to convince him. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to bring in the the other members of the party. If the other players agree with you, that will likely make for a more compelling argument. At the same time, trying to wield power you don't actually have is at least as likely to backfire as anything else. I wouldn't suggest it.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
14.4k2 gold badges34 silver badges81 bronze badges
14.4k2 gold badges34 silver badges81 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
+1, as the one running the game the DM is “more equal than the rest.”
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
+1, as the one running the game the DM is “more equal than the rest.”
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
+1, as the one running the game the DM is “more equal than the rest.”
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
+1, as the one running the game the DM is “more equal than the rest.”
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's best to work it out as a group, with the DM having the same say as the players. If it can't be worked out as a group, there's a hierarchy of "who matters" in the answer.
Host > DM > Players
In the end the Host has the final say because, well, its the host's place. The DM has second priority because they are running the game. Adding players can mess up a lot for a DM, especially if they already feel the group is too large to handle. Players have the lowest priority because they just show up to play without putting in much out of session work.
Some of the comments have suggested the DM have more power than the host to add players. Whereas I do see the point that DMing an extra player is hard, it's really not the DM's place to tell the host "You can't do what you want to in your own house." The DM could always say something like, "I can't DM for any more people, would you be able to DM?" There's also the option of finding another place to host it. This solution is far from optimal.
And again, it's best if the group as a whole can make the decision to add someone in.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Though there’s a little asymmetry right... I agree with your hierarchy in terms of kicking someone, but does it work in terms of adding someone?
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Certainly - if the host doesn't want an extra person in their house their say is final. As an example, I have 2 kids who are asleep during D&D. The house needs to stay quiet, so a small group is necessary. As a DM I've been at 7 people before and they wanted to add two more people. The group of 7 was barely manageable, so I told them we couldn't do it. And as a player, well, you should just be thankful to have a group. But really, coming to a group consensus is much better, but if needed, follow that hierarchy.
$endgroup$
– Nick Tydryszewski
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think you should add a caveat that a Host can't add a player without the DM's approval. Adding players creates a lot of work for the DM and if they aren't comfortable with it they shouldn't be added.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Changing DM because the host added a player isn't adding a player to the game. It's starting a new game. Do you have experience as a DM where you have added players? I think your answer is underestimating the work that this puts on a DM. I agree that the host should have a significant voice, but the DM should be allowed to say no.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
54 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
Ultimately... I don't think this "hierarchy" really exists as you put it, because a decision by any of the entities can be "vetoed" by the others. If the host decides something the others don't like, the game can be hosted elsewhere; if the DM decides something and refuses to budge if the players don't like it, the players can find a new DM or a player can decide to DM themselves; if a player does something unacceptable and the DM/other players don't like it, they can leave or eject the unwanted player. Even if some of these solutions are "suboptimal", that's already the worst-case scenario.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast♦
54 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's best to work it out as a group, with the DM having the same say as the players. If it can't be worked out as a group, there's a hierarchy of "who matters" in the answer.
Host > DM > Players
In the end the Host has the final say because, well, its the host's place. The DM has second priority because they are running the game. Adding players can mess up a lot for a DM, especially if they already feel the group is too large to handle. Players have the lowest priority because they just show up to play without putting in much out of session work.
Some of the comments have suggested the DM have more power than the host to add players. Whereas I do see the point that DMing an extra player is hard, it's really not the DM's place to tell the host "You can't do what you want to in your own house." The DM could always say something like, "I can't DM for any more people, would you be able to DM?" There's also the option of finding another place to host it. This solution is far from optimal.
And again, it's best if the group as a whole can make the decision to add someone in.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Though there’s a little asymmetry right... I agree with your hierarchy in terms of kicking someone, but does it work in terms of adding someone?
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Certainly - if the host doesn't want an extra person in their house their say is final. As an example, I have 2 kids who are asleep during D&D. The house needs to stay quiet, so a small group is necessary. As a DM I've been at 7 people before and they wanted to add two more people. The group of 7 was barely manageable, so I told them we couldn't do it. And as a player, well, you should just be thankful to have a group. But really, coming to a group consensus is much better, but if needed, follow that hierarchy.
$endgroup$
– Nick Tydryszewski
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think you should add a caveat that a Host can't add a player without the DM's approval. Adding players creates a lot of work for the DM and if they aren't comfortable with it they shouldn't be added.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Changing DM because the host added a player isn't adding a player to the game. It's starting a new game. Do you have experience as a DM where you have added players? I think your answer is underestimating the work that this puts on a DM. I agree that the host should have a significant voice, but the DM should be allowed to say no.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
54 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
Ultimately... I don't think this "hierarchy" really exists as you put it, because a decision by any of the entities can be "vetoed" by the others. If the host decides something the others don't like, the game can be hosted elsewhere; if the DM decides something and refuses to budge if the players don't like it, the players can find a new DM or a player can decide to DM themselves; if a player does something unacceptable and the DM/other players don't like it, they can leave or eject the unwanted player. Even if some of these solutions are "suboptimal", that's already the worst-case scenario.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast♦
54 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's best to work it out as a group, with the DM having the same say as the players. If it can't be worked out as a group, there's a hierarchy of "who matters" in the answer.
Host > DM > Players
In the end the Host has the final say because, well, its the host's place. The DM has second priority because they are running the game. Adding players can mess up a lot for a DM, especially if they already feel the group is too large to handle. Players have the lowest priority because they just show up to play without putting in much out of session work.
Some of the comments have suggested the DM have more power than the host to add players. Whereas I do see the point that DMing an extra player is hard, it's really not the DM's place to tell the host "You can't do what you want to in your own house." The DM could always say something like, "I can't DM for any more people, would you be able to DM?" There's also the option of finding another place to host it. This solution is far from optimal.
And again, it's best if the group as a whole can make the decision to add someone in.
$endgroup$
It's best to work it out as a group, with the DM having the same say as the players. If it can't be worked out as a group, there's a hierarchy of "who matters" in the answer.
Host > DM > Players
In the end the Host has the final say because, well, its the host's place. The DM has second priority because they are running the game. Adding players can mess up a lot for a DM, especially if they already feel the group is too large to handle. Players have the lowest priority because they just show up to play without putting in much out of session work.
Some of the comments have suggested the DM have more power than the host to add players. Whereas I do see the point that DMing an extra player is hard, it's really not the DM's place to tell the host "You can't do what you want to in your own house." The DM could always say something like, "I can't DM for any more people, would you be able to DM?" There's also the option of finding another place to host it. This solution is far from optimal.
And again, it's best if the group as a whole can make the decision to add someone in.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 6 hours ago
Nick TydryszewskiNick Tydryszewski
62611 bronze badges
62611 bronze badges
2
$begingroup$
Though there’s a little asymmetry right... I agree with your hierarchy in terms of kicking someone, but does it work in terms of adding someone?
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Certainly - if the host doesn't want an extra person in their house their say is final. As an example, I have 2 kids who are asleep during D&D. The house needs to stay quiet, so a small group is necessary. As a DM I've been at 7 people before and they wanted to add two more people. The group of 7 was barely manageable, so I told them we couldn't do it. And as a player, well, you should just be thankful to have a group. But really, coming to a group consensus is much better, but if needed, follow that hierarchy.
$endgroup$
– Nick Tydryszewski
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think you should add a caveat that a Host can't add a player without the DM's approval. Adding players creates a lot of work for the DM and if they aren't comfortable with it they shouldn't be added.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Changing DM because the host added a player isn't adding a player to the game. It's starting a new game. Do you have experience as a DM where you have added players? I think your answer is underestimating the work that this puts on a DM. I agree that the host should have a significant voice, but the DM should be allowed to say no.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
54 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
Ultimately... I don't think this "hierarchy" really exists as you put it, because a decision by any of the entities can be "vetoed" by the others. If the host decides something the others don't like, the game can be hosted elsewhere; if the DM decides something and refuses to budge if the players don't like it, the players can find a new DM or a player can decide to DM themselves; if a player does something unacceptable and the DM/other players don't like it, they can leave or eject the unwanted player. Even if some of these solutions are "suboptimal", that's already the worst-case scenario.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast♦
54 mins ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Though there’s a little asymmetry right... I agree with your hierarchy in terms of kicking someone, but does it work in terms of adding someone?
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Certainly - if the host doesn't want an extra person in their house their say is final. As an example, I have 2 kids who are asleep during D&D. The house needs to stay quiet, so a small group is necessary. As a DM I've been at 7 people before and they wanted to add two more people. The group of 7 was barely manageable, so I told them we couldn't do it. And as a player, well, you should just be thankful to have a group. But really, coming to a group consensus is much better, but if needed, follow that hierarchy.
$endgroup$
– Nick Tydryszewski
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think you should add a caveat that a Host can't add a player without the DM's approval. Adding players creates a lot of work for the DM and if they aren't comfortable with it they shouldn't be added.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Changing DM because the host added a player isn't adding a player to the game. It's starting a new game. Do you have experience as a DM where you have added players? I think your answer is underestimating the work that this puts on a DM. I agree that the host should have a significant voice, but the DM should be allowed to say no.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
54 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
Ultimately... I don't think this "hierarchy" really exists as you put it, because a decision by any of the entities can be "vetoed" by the others. If the host decides something the others don't like, the game can be hosted elsewhere; if the DM decides something and refuses to budge if the players don't like it, the players can find a new DM or a player can decide to DM themselves; if a player does something unacceptable and the DM/other players don't like it, they can leave or eject the unwanted player. Even if some of these solutions are "suboptimal", that's already the worst-case scenario.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast♦
54 mins ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Though there’s a little asymmetry right... I agree with your hierarchy in terms of kicking someone, but does it work in terms of adding someone?
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Though there’s a little asymmetry right... I agree with your hierarchy in terms of kicking someone, but does it work in terms of adding someone?
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
6 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Certainly - if the host doesn't want an extra person in their house their say is final. As an example, I have 2 kids who are asleep during D&D. The house needs to stay quiet, so a small group is necessary. As a DM I've been at 7 people before and they wanted to add two more people. The group of 7 was barely manageable, so I told them we couldn't do it. And as a player, well, you should just be thankful to have a group. But really, coming to a group consensus is much better, but if needed, follow that hierarchy.
$endgroup$
– Nick Tydryszewski
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Certainly - if the host doesn't want an extra person in their house their say is final. As an example, I have 2 kids who are asleep during D&D. The house needs to stay quiet, so a small group is necessary. As a DM I've been at 7 people before and they wanted to add two more people. The group of 7 was barely manageable, so I told them we couldn't do it. And as a player, well, you should just be thankful to have a group. But really, coming to a group consensus is much better, but if needed, follow that hierarchy.
$endgroup$
– Nick Tydryszewski
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think you should add a caveat that a Host can't add a player without the DM's approval. Adding players creates a lot of work for the DM and if they aren't comfortable with it they shouldn't be added.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think you should add a caveat that a Host can't add a player without the DM's approval. Adding players creates a lot of work for the DM and if they aren't comfortable with it they shouldn't be added.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Changing DM because the host added a player isn't adding a player to the game. It's starting a new game. Do you have experience as a DM where you have added players? I think your answer is underestimating the work that this puts on a DM. I agree that the host should have a significant voice, but the DM should be allowed to say no.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
54 mins ago
$begingroup$
Changing DM because the host added a player isn't adding a player to the game. It's starting a new game. Do you have experience as a DM where you have added players? I think your answer is underestimating the work that this puts on a DM. I agree that the host should have a significant voice, but the DM should be allowed to say no.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
54 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Ultimately... I don't think this "hierarchy" really exists as you put it, because a decision by any of the entities can be "vetoed" by the others. If the host decides something the others don't like, the game can be hosted elsewhere; if the DM decides something and refuses to budge if the players don't like it, the players can find a new DM or a player can decide to DM themselves; if a player does something unacceptable and the DM/other players don't like it, they can leave or eject the unwanted player. Even if some of these solutions are "suboptimal", that's already the worst-case scenario.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast♦
54 mins ago
$begingroup$
Ultimately... I don't think this "hierarchy" really exists as you put it, because a decision by any of the entities can be "vetoed" by the others. If the host decides something the others don't like, the game can be hosted elsewhere; if the DM decides something and refuses to budge if the players don't like it, the players can find a new DM or a player can decide to DM themselves; if a player does something unacceptable and the DM/other players don't like it, they can leave or eject the unwanted player. Even if some of these solutions are "suboptimal", that's already the worst-case scenario.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast♦
54 mins ago
add a comment |
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Not an answer, but I would warn the DM that running D&D 5e with more than 5 or 6 is extremely taxing on the DM and slow paced, especially with regard to combat encounters. I personally would rather run two different campaigns on different nights than one giant group campaign.
$endgroup$
– Renegade
9 hours ago