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Is it legal for a bar bouncer to conficaste a fake ID
If I have 2 cars is it legal for me to insure each with a different insurance companyIs it legal for a company to scalp their own tickets?What legal responsibility does a mother have to the father of her child?Are these HOA rules legal?Puzzle - different middle names, What is my legal name for employment in the U.S.?Landlord billing me for previous tenant's chargesSales tax nexus in Illinois for a “startup”?Is it legal or acceptable to use a photo of my ID, instead of my actual ID?
Background: I read a Reddit thread where someone had an international passport confiscated from them at a bar. I imagine that the bouncer probably didn't recognize what he was looking at and assumed it was a fake ID.
From what I understand, the bar does not have the authority to confiscate such a real passport, but that got me to thinking, what if the Bouncer was right? Does he actually have the legal authority to confiscate the fake ID?
The reason I ask, is because if he does have that authority, it feels to me like an awkward law, because a simple gap in knowledge can be what makes the difference between legal and illegal.
illinois identification
add a comment |
Background: I read a Reddit thread where someone had an international passport confiscated from them at a bar. I imagine that the bouncer probably didn't recognize what he was looking at and assumed it was a fake ID.
From what I understand, the bar does not have the authority to confiscate such a real passport, but that got me to thinking, what if the Bouncer was right? Does he actually have the legal authority to confiscate the fake ID?
The reason I ask, is because if he does have that authority, it feels to me like an awkward law, because a simple gap in knowledge can be what makes the difference between legal and illegal.
illinois identification
2
I don't know about Illinois, but in Colorado, bar employees do have the legal authority to confiscate a suspected fake ID, if they have "reasonable cause" to believe it is fake. They must turn it over to the police within 72 hours, at which point, if it is actually real, the holder could get it back. See the Colorado Liquor Code, 44-3-901 (6) (a) (II) (A), page 77.
– Nate Eldredge
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Background: I read a Reddit thread where someone had an international passport confiscated from them at a bar. I imagine that the bouncer probably didn't recognize what he was looking at and assumed it was a fake ID.
From what I understand, the bar does not have the authority to confiscate such a real passport, but that got me to thinking, what if the Bouncer was right? Does he actually have the legal authority to confiscate the fake ID?
The reason I ask, is because if he does have that authority, it feels to me like an awkward law, because a simple gap in knowledge can be what makes the difference between legal and illegal.
illinois identification
Background: I read a Reddit thread where someone had an international passport confiscated from them at a bar. I imagine that the bouncer probably didn't recognize what he was looking at and assumed it was a fake ID.
From what I understand, the bar does not have the authority to confiscate such a real passport, but that got me to thinking, what if the Bouncer was right? Does he actually have the legal authority to confiscate the fake ID?
The reason I ask, is because if he does have that authority, it feels to me like an awkward law, because a simple gap in knowledge can be what makes the difference between legal and illegal.
illinois identification
illinois identification
asked 8 hours ago
Sam I amSam I am
95821022
95821022
2
I don't know about Illinois, but in Colorado, bar employees do have the legal authority to confiscate a suspected fake ID, if they have "reasonable cause" to believe it is fake. They must turn it over to the police within 72 hours, at which point, if it is actually real, the holder could get it back. See the Colorado Liquor Code, 44-3-901 (6) (a) (II) (A), page 77.
– Nate Eldredge
7 hours ago
add a comment |
2
I don't know about Illinois, but in Colorado, bar employees do have the legal authority to confiscate a suspected fake ID, if they have "reasonable cause" to believe it is fake. They must turn it over to the police within 72 hours, at which point, if it is actually real, the holder could get it back. See the Colorado Liquor Code, 44-3-901 (6) (a) (II) (A), page 77.
– Nate Eldredge
7 hours ago
2
2
I don't know about Illinois, but in Colorado, bar employees do have the legal authority to confiscate a suspected fake ID, if they have "reasonable cause" to believe it is fake. They must turn it over to the police within 72 hours, at which point, if it is actually real, the holder could get it back. See the Colorado Liquor Code, 44-3-901 (6) (a) (II) (A), page 77.
– Nate Eldredge
7 hours ago
I don't know about Illinois, but in Colorado, bar employees do have the legal authority to confiscate a suspected fake ID, if they have "reasonable cause" to believe it is fake. They must turn it over to the police within 72 hours, at which point, if it is actually real, the holder could get it back. See the Colorado Liquor Code, 44-3-901 (6) (a) (II) (A), page 77.
– Nate Eldredge
7 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
There are a couple of indications that a bouncer may not confiscate an ID. This policy document adopting licensing policies to
Require licensees with fake ID violations to temporarily or
permanently hire on-site law enforcement or certified security guards
who are properly trained to check IDsduring regular or peak hours to
deter the use of fake IDsand give gatekeepers the opportunity to pass
suspected fakes to an officer or guard for a second opinion and
potential confiscation. Where appropriate, jurisdictions could empower
the gatekeeper to confiscate fake IDs so they are not returned to the
underage drinker and sent back into circulation. To ensure compliance
with legal issues (e.g., property rights, bailment issues), arrange
for the on-call or on-site presence of local law enforcement. Local
bar and restaurant associations, especially those in concentrated
entertainment zones, can join together to share the expense of law
enforcement resources.
That implies that the bouncer does not already have that authority, and also indicates that the confiscation should be performed by police. This bouncer training manual says that
Even though you may consider the ID to be fake, it is not considered
the server's property. Therefore servers and sellers should not
confiscate IDs they suspect to be fake. Rather... follow up with a
call to the police to verify suspected false IDs.
However, a jurisdiction may grant servers that power, as in the case of Colorado. Washington doesn't do that, so bouncers would need to call the police (not that they always do, since passing a fake ID is somewhere between a misdemeanor and a felony). The general principle is that you may not confiscate another person's property, but the police can seize property if it is reasonable to do so. A state may pass a law authorizing a licensee to do likewise (though it does raise questions about the bouncer's understanding of "reasonable cause to believe"). The Colorado statute is restricted to licensee and their employees, and does not apply to "anyone who suspects an ID", nor does it allow civilian confiscation of other property such as an automobile that is suspected of being stolen
add a comment |
It depends on the situation. The bouncer can take the fake ID long enough to call the police, since the person is committing a crime and it can be reported.
The police would then decide what to do with it. If you are saying you don't feel the establishment should be able to take your belongings, they are just holding them until the police arrive to investigate.
I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I took something of yours until the police arrive. Or not. The poster didn't say anything about calling the police. They asked if it can be just taken. And that's it. Reminds me of the kid that got arrested for using a valid, real 2 dollar bill. Can they just take the 2 dollar bill? And not call the cops?
– mark b
5 hours ago
No one said they can take your money and not call the police. I said they are allowed to take it and call the police. About the money though, if you commit a crime with the money, yes it can be taken.
– Putvi
5 hours ago
@markb generally when you use something to commit a crime it's evidence though. I get you are trying to make it sound like they are just taking things, but if you commit a crime it gets taken.
– Putvi
4 hours ago
@markb As someone who's worked security, I can't imagine a situation where an officer, bouncer, or whoever would just take a fake ID and do nothing else. Possessing a fake ID is a crime that should be reported, and if they're only taking it and not bothering to report a crime, then there are much more serious issues at hand. At minimum, establishments that don't immediately call police still turn in all confiscated IDs to police at the end of the night. This suggestion isn't all that different than a bank holding on to a counterfeit/stolen check until police arrive.
– animuson♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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There are a couple of indications that a bouncer may not confiscate an ID. This policy document adopting licensing policies to
Require licensees with fake ID violations to temporarily or
permanently hire on-site law enforcement or certified security guards
who are properly trained to check IDsduring regular or peak hours to
deter the use of fake IDsand give gatekeepers the opportunity to pass
suspected fakes to an officer or guard for a second opinion and
potential confiscation. Where appropriate, jurisdictions could empower
the gatekeeper to confiscate fake IDs so they are not returned to the
underage drinker and sent back into circulation. To ensure compliance
with legal issues (e.g., property rights, bailment issues), arrange
for the on-call or on-site presence of local law enforcement. Local
bar and restaurant associations, especially those in concentrated
entertainment zones, can join together to share the expense of law
enforcement resources.
That implies that the bouncer does not already have that authority, and also indicates that the confiscation should be performed by police. This bouncer training manual says that
Even though you may consider the ID to be fake, it is not considered
the server's property. Therefore servers and sellers should not
confiscate IDs they suspect to be fake. Rather... follow up with a
call to the police to verify suspected false IDs.
However, a jurisdiction may grant servers that power, as in the case of Colorado. Washington doesn't do that, so bouncers would need to call the police (not that they always do, since passing a fake ID is somewhere between a misdemeanor and a felony). The general principle is that you may not confiscate another person's property, but the police can seize property if it is reasonable to do so. A state may pass a law authorizing a licensee to do likewise (though it does raise questions about the bouncer's understanding of "reasonable cause to believe"). The Colorado statute is restricted to licensee and their employees, and does not apply to "anyone who suspects an ID", nor does it allow civilian confiscation of other property such as an automobile that is suspected of being stolen
add a comment |
There are a couple of indications that a bouncer may not confiscate an ID. This policy document adopting licensing policies to
Require licensees with fake ID violations to temporarily or
permanently hire on-site law enforcement or certified security guards
who are properly trained to check IDsduring regular or peak hours to
deter the use of fake IDsand give gatekeepers the opportunity to pass
suspected fakes to an officer or guard for a second opinion and
potential confiscation. Where appropriate, jurisdictions could empower
the gatekeeper to confiscate fake IDs so they are not returned to the
underage drinker and sent back into circulation. To ensure compliance
with legal issues (e.g., property rights, bailment issues), arrange
for the on-call or on-site presence of local law enforcement. Local
bar and restaurant associations, especially those in concentrated
entertainment zones, can join together to share the expense of law
enforcement resources.
That implies that the bouncer does not already have that authority, and also indicates that the confiscation should be performed by police. This bouncer training manual says that
Even though you may consider the ID to be fake, it is not considered
the server's property. Therefore servers and sellers should not
confiscate IDs they suspect to be fake. Rather... follow up with a
call to the police to verify suspected false IDs.
However, a jurisdiction may grant servers that power, as in the case of Colorado. Washington doesn't do that, so bouncers would need to call the police (not that they always do, since passing a fake ID is somewhere between a misdemeanor and a felony). The general principle is that you may not confiscate another person's property, but the police can seize property if it is reasonable to do so. A state may pass a law authorizing a licensee to do likewise (though it does raise questions about the bouncer's understanding of "reasonable cause to believe"). The Colorado statute is restricted to licensee and their employees, and does not apply to "anyone who suspects an ID", nor does it allow civilian confiscation of other property such as an automobile that is suspected of being stolen
add a comment |
There are a couple of indications that a bouncer may not confiscate an ID. This policy document adopting licensing policies to
Require licensees with fake ID violations to temporarily or
permanently hire on-site law enforcement or certified security guards
who are properly trained to check IDsduring regular or peak hours to
deter the use of fake IDsand give gatekeepers the opportunity to pass
suspected fakes to an officer or guard for a second opinion and
potential confiscation. Where appropriate, jurisdictions could empower
the gatekeeper to confiscate fake IDs so they are not returned to the
underage drinker and sent back into circulation. To ensure compliance
with legal issues (e.g., property rights, bailment issues), arrange
for the on-call or on-site presence of local law enforcement. Local
bar and restaurant associations, especially those in concentrated
entertainment zones, can join together to share the expense of law
enforcement resources.
That implies that the bouncer does not already have that authority, and also indicates that the confiscation should be performed by police. This bouncer training manual says that
Even though you may consider the ID to be fake, it is not considered
the server's property. Therefore servers and sellers should not
confiscate IDs they suspect to be fake. Rather... follow up with a
call to the police to verify suspected false IDs.
However, a jurisdiction may grant servers that power, as in the case of Colorado. Washington doesn't do that, so bouncers would need to call the police (not that they always do, since passing a fake ID is somewhere between a misdemeanor and a felony). The general principle is that you may not confiscate another person's property, but the police can seize property if it is reasonable to do so. A state may pass a law authorizing a licensee to do likewise (though it does raise questions about the bouncer's understanding of "reasonable cause to believe"). The Colorado statute is restricted to licensee and their employees, and does not apply to "anyone who suspects an ID", nor does it allow civilian confiscation of other property such as an automobile that is suspected of being stolen
There are a couple of indications that a bouncer may not confiscate an ID. This policy document adopting licensing policies to
Require licensees with fake ID violations to temporarily or
permanently hire on-site law enforcement or certified security guards
who are properly trained to check IDsduring regular or peak hours to
deter the use of fake IDsand give gatekeepers the opportunity to pass
suspected fakes to an officer or guard for a second opinion and
potential confiscation. Where appropriate, jurisdictions could empower
the gatekeeper to confiscate fake IDs so they are not returned to the
underage drinker and sent back into circulation. To ensure compliance
with legal issues (e.g., property rights, bailment issues), arrange
for the on-call or on-site presence of local law enforcement. Local
bar and restaurant associations, especially those in concentrated
entertainment zones, can join together to share the expense of law
enforcement resources.
That implies that the bouncer does not already have that authority, and also indicates that the confiscation should be performed by police. This bouncer training manual says that
Even though you may consider the ID to be fake, it is not considered
the server's property. Therefore servers and sellers should not
confiscate IDs they suspect to be fake. Rather... follow up with a
call to the police to verify suspected false IDs.
However, a jurisdiction may grant servers that power, as in the case of Colorado. Washington doesn't do that, so bouncers would need to call the police (not that they always do, since passing a fake ID is somewhere between a misdemeanor and a felony). The general principle is that you may not confiscate another person's property, but the police can seize property if it is reasonable to do so. A state may pass a law authorizing a licensee to do likewise (though it does raise questions about the bouncer's understanding of "reasonable cause to believe"). The Colorado statute is restricted to licensee and their employees, and does not apply to "anyone who suspects an ID", nor does it allow civilian confiscation of other property such as an automobile that is suspected of being stolen
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
user6726user6726
63.9k459115
63.9k459115
add a comment |
add a comment |
It depends on the situation. The bouncer can take the fake ID long enough to call the police, since the person is committing a crime and it can be reported.
The police would then decide what to do with it. If you are saying you don't feel the establishment should be able to take your belongings, they are just holding them until the police arrive to investigate.
I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I took something of yours until the police arrive. Or not. The poster didn't say anything about calling the police. They asked if it can be just taken. And that's it. Reminds me of the kid that got arrested for using a valid, real 2 dollar bill. Can they just take the 2 dollar bill? And not call the cops?
– mark b
5 hours ago
No one said they can take your money and not call the police. I said they are allowed to take it and call the police. About the money though, if you commit a crime with the money, yes it can be taken.
– Putvi
5 hours ago
@markb generally when you use something to commit a crime it's evidence though. I get you are trying to make it sound like they are just taking things, but if you commit a crime it gets taken.
– Putvi
4 hours ago
@markb As someone who's worked security, I can't imagine a situation where an officer, bouncer, or whoever would just take a fake ID and do nothing else. Possessing a fake ID is a crime that should be reported, and if they're only taking it and not bothering to report a crime, then there are much more serious issues at hand. At minimum, establishments that don't immediately call police still turn in all confiscated IDs to police at the end of the night. This suggestion isn't all that different than a bank holding on to a counterfeit/stolen check until police arrive.
– animuson♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on the situation. The bouncer can take the fake ID long enough to call the police, since the person is committing a crime and it can be reported.
The police would then decide what to do with it. If you are saying you don't feel the establishment should be able to take your belongings, they are just holding them until the police arrive to investigate.
I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I took something of yours until the police arrive. Or not. The poster didn't say anything about calling the police. They asked if it can be just taken. And that's it. Reminds me of the kid that got arrested for using a valid, real 2 dollar bill. Can they just take the 2 dollar bill? And not call the cops?
– mark b
5 hours ago
No one said they can take your money and not call the police. I said they are allowed to take it and call the police. About the money though, if you commit a crime with the money, yes it can be taken.
– Putvi
5 hours ago
@markb generally when you use something to commit a crime it's evidence though. I get you are trying to make it sound like they are just taking things, but if you commit a crime it gets taken.
– Putvi
4 hours ago
@markb As someone who's worked security, I can't imagine a situation where an officer, bouncer, or whoever would just take a fake ID and do nothing else. Possessing a fake ID is a crime that should be reported, and if they're only taking it and not bothering to report a crime, then there are much more serious issues at hand. At minimum, establishments that don't immediately call police still turn in all confiscated IDs to police at the end of the night. This suggestion isn't all that different than a bank holding on to a counterfeit/stolen check until police arrive.
– animuson♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on the situation. The bouncer can take the fake ID long enough to call the police, since the person is committing a crime and it can be reported.
The police would then decide what to do with it. If you are saying you don't feel the establishment should be able to take your belongings, they are just holding them until the police arrive to investigate.
It depends on the situation. The bouncer can take the fake ID long enough to call the police, since the person is committing a crime and it can be reported.
The police would then decide what to do with it. If you are saying you don't feel the establishment should be able to take your belongings, they are just holding them until the police arrive to investigate.
answered 8 hours ago
PutviPutvi
2,565317
2,565317
I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I took something of yours until the police arrive. Or not. The poster didn't say anything about calling the police. They asked if it can be just taken. And that's it. Reminds me of the kid that got arrested for using a valid, real 2 dollar bill. Can they just take the 2 dollar bill? And not call the cops?
– mark b
5 hours ago
No one said they can take your money and not call the police. I said they are allowed to take it and call the police. About the money though, if you commit a crime with the money, yes it can be taken.
– Putvi
5 hours ago
@markb generally when you use something to commit a crime it's evidence though. I get you are trying to make it sound like they are just taking things, but if you commit a crime it gets taken.
– Putvi
4 hours ago
@markb As someone who's worked security, I can't imagine a situation where an officer, bouncer, or whoever would just take a fake ID and do nothing else. Possessing a fake ID is a crime that should be reported, and if they're only taking it and not bothering to report a crime, then there are much more serious issues at hand. At minimum, establishments that don't immediately call police still turn in all confiscated IDs to police at the end of the night. This suggestion isn't all that different than a bank holding on to a counterfeit/stolen check until police arrive.
– animuson♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I took something of yours until the police arrive. Or not. The poster didn't say anything about calling the police. They asked if it can be just taken. And that's it. Reminds me of the kid that got arrested for using a valid, real 2 dollar bill. Can they just take the 2 dollar bill? And not call the cops?
– mark b
5 hours ago
No one said they can take your money and not call the police. I said they are allowed to take it and call the police. About the money though, if you commit a crime with the money, yes it can be taken.
– Putvi
5 hours ago
@markb generally when you use something to commit a crime it's evidence though. I get you are trying to make it sound like they are just taking things, but if you commit a crime it gets taken.
– Putvi
4 hours ago
@markb As someone who's worked security, I can't imagine a situation where an officer, bouncer, or whoever would just take a fake ID and do nothing else. Possessing a fake ID is a crime that should be reported, and if they're only taking it and not bothering to report a crime, then there are much more serious issues at hand. At minimum, establishments that don't immediately call police still turn in all confiscated IDs to police at the end of the night. This suggestion isn't all that different than a bank holding on to a counterfeit/stolen check until police arrive.
– animuson♦
3 hours ago
I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I took something of yours until the police arrive. Or not. The poster didn't say anything about calling the police. They asked if it can be just taken. And that's it. Reminds me of the kid that got arrested for using a valid, real 2 dollar bill. Can they just take the 2 dollar bill? And not call the cops?
– mark b
5 hours ago
I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I took something of yours until the police arrive. Or not. The poster didn't say anything about calling the police. They asked if it can be just taken. And that's it. Reminds me of the kid that got arrested for using a valid, real 2 dollar bill. Can they just take the 2 dollar bill? And not call the cops?
– mark b
5 hours ago
No one said they can take your money and not call the police. I said they are allowed to take it and call the police. About the money though, if you commit a crime with the money, yes it can be taken.
– Putvi
5 hours ago
No one said they can take your money and not call the police. I said they are allowed to take it and call the police. About the money though, if you commit a crime with the money, yes it can be taken.
– Putvi
5 hours ago
@markb generally when you use something to commit a crime it's evidence though. I get you are trying to make it sound like they are just taking things, but if you commit a crime it gets taken.
– Putvi
4 hours ago
@markb generally when you use something to commit a crime it's evidence though. I get you are trying to make it sound like they are just taking things, but if you commit a crime it gets taken.
– Putvi
4 hours ago
@markb As someone who's worked security, I can't imagine a situation where an officer, bouncer, or whoever would just take a fake ID and do nothing else. Possessing a fake ID is a crime that should be reported, and if they're only taking it and not bothering to report a crime, then there are much more serious issues at hand. At minimum, establishments that don't immediately call police still turn in all confiscated IDs to police at the end of the night. This suggestion isn't all that different than a bank holding on to a counterfeit/stolen check until police arrive.
– animuson♦
3 hours ago
@markb As someone who's worked security, I can't imagine a situation where an officer, bouncer, or whoever would just take a fake ID and do nothing else. Possessing a fake ID is a crime that should be reported, and if they're only taking it and not bothering to report a crime, then there are much more serious issues at hand. At minimum, establishments that don't immediately call police still turn in all confiscated IDs to police at the end of the night. This suggestion isn't all that different than a bank holding on to a counterfeit/stolen check until police arrive.
– animuson♦
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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I don't know about Illinois, but in Colorado, bar employees do have the legal authority to confiscate a suspected fake ID, if they have "reasonable cause" to believe it is fake. They must turn it over to the police within 72 hours, at which point, if it is actually real, the holder could get it back. See the Colorado Liquor Code, 44-3-901 (6) (a) (II) (A), page 77.
– Nate Eldredge
7 hours ago