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Can a Resident Assistant Be Told to Ignore a Lawful Order?


Are there any Utah, USA laws about landlords providing fire extinguishers or other fire suppression?Who is responsible for an intra-hospital ambulance?Can a US President give police a “kill order”?Is it ever legal for a company to instruct employees not to call 911?Can an apartment release my package without approval, warning, or notification?How is a USA marriage dissolved if neither spouse is resident in the USA?Does a citizen have to open the door to UK police if they do not give a reason?Can apartment management terminate leases over a rule tenants never signed?Possible legal steps for psychological damage caused by a companyIs a police car parked perpendicular to the road (with flashing lights) sufficient by itself to legally establish road closure to all traffic?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








2















Today I have an interesting question involving Police, Fire, and university administration.



A little bit of background: for the past few years, my University has been involved in a small, awkward cold war with local emergency responders over expectations on live-in Residential Assistants during emergency situations. Specifically, the biggest flashpoints are fire alarms and wellness checks on residents.



Within the dorms, we have been told that both Campus Police and Local Fire Departments have been provided keys to all rooms in case an emergency (fire or safety) has been reported. We have also been told that we are, under no circumstances, to assist Police or Fire with entering a room (to which we have keys as Resident Assistants, for lockouts and the like).



The heads of the Residential Services Office insist that this is to protect the department in the case of a privacy complaint on behalf of a resident who we let police into the room of, and to avoid ordering (by policy) RAs back into a potentially dangerous building under alarm.



Police and fire, meanwhile, never seem to have the keys. Thus, for the safety of the building or the ill resident, they will order us to open up the door for them.



Which brings us to the issue: Police/fire wants us to open a door, and gives us what I believe is a lawful order do so. Meanwhile, Residence Life wants us to call up to our supervisor and follow a whole procedure, directly countermanding the orders of the officer or firefighter on scene.



Must I open the door, legally speaking? And is my department's policy of refusal illegal/unenforceable?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Chris Brace is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • Public university? It's obviously something that needs to be clarified by your university's legal counsel (with them talking to the city police/fire) and stipulated in writing and in your RA work contract. Talk to the legal counsel; they will be part of the overall U administration, at the same admin level as the president, provost, etc.

    – BlueDogRanch
    8 hours ago












  • Police and fire fighters have boots - that’s a universal key.

    – Dale M
    7 hours ago

















2















Today I have an interesting question involving Police, Fire, and university administration.



A little bit of background: for the past few years, my University has been involved in a small, awkward cold war with local emergency responders over expectations on live-in Residential Assistants during emergency situations. Specifically, the biggest flashpoints are fire alarms and wellness checks on residents.



Within the dorms, we have been told that both Campus Police and Local Fire Departments have been provided keys to all rooms in case an emergency (fire or safety) has been reported. We have also been told that we are, under no circumstances, to assist Police or Fire with entering a room (to which we have keys as Resident Assistants, for lockouts and the like).



The heads of the Residential Services Office insist that this is to protect the department in the case of a privacy complaint on behalf of a resident who we let police into the room of, and to avoid ordering (by policy) RAs back into a potentially dangerous building under alarm.



Police and fire, meanwhile, never seem to have the keys. Thus, for the safety of the building or the ill resident, they will order us to open up the door for them.



Which brings us to the issue: Police/fire wants us to open a door, and gives us what I believe is a lawful order do so. Meanwhile, Residence Life wants us to call up to our supervisor and follow a whole procedure, directly countermanding the orders of the officer or firefighter on scene.



Must I open the door, legally speaking? And is my department's policy of refusal illegal/unenforceable?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Chris Brace is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • Public university? It's obviously something that needs to be clarified by your university's legal counsel (with them talking to the city police/fire) and stipulated in writing and in your RA work contract. Talk to the legal counsel; they will be part of the overall U administration, at the same admin level as the president, provost, etc.

    – BlueDogRanch
    8 hours ago












  • Police and fire fighters have boots - that’s a universal key.

    – Dale M
    7 hours ago













2












2








2








Today I have an interesting question involving Police, Fire, and university administration.



A little bit of background: for the past few years, my University has been involved in a small, awkward cold war with local emergency responders over expectations on live-in Residential Assistants during emergency situations. Specifically, the biggest flashpoints are fire alarms and wellness checks on residents.



Within the dorms, we have been told that both Campus Police and Local Fire Departments have been provided keys to all rooms in case an emergency (fire or safety) has been reported. We have also been told that we are, under no circumstances, to assist Police or Fire with entering a room (to which we have keys as Resident Assistants, for lockouts and the like).



The heads of the Residential Services Office insist that this is to protect the department in the case of a privacy complaint on behalf of a resident who we let police into the room of, and to avoid ordering (by policy) RAs back into a potentially dangerous building under alarm.



Police and fire, meanwhile, never seem to have the keys. Thus, for the safety of the building or the ill resident, they will order us to open up the door for them.



Which brings us to the issue: Police/fire wants us to open a door, and gives us what I believe is a lawful order do so. Meanwhile, Residence Life wants us to call up to our supervisor and follow a whole procedure, directly countermanding the orders of the officer or firefighter on scene.



Must I open the door, legally speaking? And is my department's policy of refusal illegal/unenforceable?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Chris Brace is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











Today I have an interesting question involving Police, Fire, and university administration.



A little bit of background: for the past few years, my University has been involved in a small, awkward cold war with local emergency responders over expectations on live-in Residential Assistants during emergency situations. Specifically, the biggest flashpoints are fire alarms and wellness checks on residents.



Within the dorms, we have been told that both Campus Police and Local Fire Departments have been provided keys to all rooms in case an emergency (fire or safety) has been reported. We have also been told that we are, under no circumstances, to assist Police or Fire with entering a room (to which we have keys as Resident Assistants, for lockouts and the like).



The heads of the Residential Services Office insist that this is to protect the department in the case of a privacy complaint on behalf of a resident who we let police into the room of, and to avoid ordering (by policy) RAs back into a potentially dangerous building under alarm.



Police and fire, meanwhile, never seem to have the keys. Thus, for the safety of the building or the ill resident, they will order us to open up the door for them.



Which brings us to the issue: Police/fire wants us to open a door, and gives us what I believe is a lawful order do so. Meanwhile, Residence Life wants us to call up to our supervisor and follow a whole procedure, directly countermanding the orders of the officer or firefighter on scene.



Must I open the door, legally speaking? And is my department's policy of refusal illegal/unenforceable?







united-states police ohio emergencies






share|improve this question







New contributor



Chris Brace is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question







New contributor



Chris Brace is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor



Chris Brace is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked 8 hours ago









Chris BraceChris Brace

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New contributor



Chris Brace is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




Chris Brace is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • Public university? It's obviously something that needs to be clarified by your university's legal counsel (with them talking to the city police/fire) and stipulated in writing and in your RA work contract. Talk to the legal counsel; they will be part of the overall U administration, at the same admin level as the president, provost, etc.

    – BlueDogRanch
    8 hours ago












  • Police and fire fighters have boots - that’s a universal key.

    – Dale M
    7 hours ago

















  • Public university? It's obviously something that needs to be clarified by your university's legal counsel (with them talking to the city police/fire) and stipulated in writing and in your RA work contract. Talk to the legal counsel; they will be part of the overall U administration, at the same admin level as the president, provost, etc.

    – BlueDogRanch
    8 hours ago












  • Police and fire fighters have boots - that’s a universal key.

    – Dale M
    7 hours ago
















Public university? It's obviously something that needs to be clarified by your university's legal counsel (with them talking to the city police/fire) and stipulated in writing and in your RA work contract. Talk to the legal counsel; they will be part of the overall U administration, at the same admin level as the president, provost, etc.

– BlueDogRanch
8 hours ago






Public university? It's obviously something that needs to be clarified by your university's legal counsel (with them talking to the city police/fire) and stipulated in writing and in your RA work contract. Talk to the legal counsel; they will be part of the overall U administration, at the same admin level as the president, provost, etc.

– BlueDogRanch
8 hours ago














Police and fire fighters have boots - that’s a universal key.

– Dale M
7 hours ago





Police and fire fighters have boots - that’s a universal key.

– Dale M
7 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















2














There is a state law that requires you to obey the police: ORC 2917.13, which says you may not




Fail to obey the lawful order of any law enforcement officer engaged
in the law enforcement officer's duties at the scene of or in
connection with a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
kind.




If you do,




misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a
violation of this section creates a risk of physical harm to persons
or property, misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the first
degree.




You also cannot




Hamper the lawful operations of any law enforcement officer,
firefighter, rescuer, medical person, emergency medical services
person, or other authorized person, engaged in the person's duties at
the scene of a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
kind




"Hamper" is not defined statutorily, but the plain meaning of "hamper" is not the same as "fail to assist". We have not established that the order is lawful, however, which is crucial. The police cannot just freely search a residence without permission. If they have permission from the occupant, they can search and seize. If they have probable cause to believe that a crime exists and the circumstances make a warrant impractical, they can search and seize. I don't know what you mean by "wellness check", but that seems plainly to be unlawful entry. However, if the resident calls 911 and reports that he is having an issue, that is sufficient consent for entry.



In the case of a fire alarm, the fire code authorizes a fire department official in charge of an actual emergency response incident to order the evacuation of a building, and occupants are required to comply. If we suppose that the smoke detector in a room has gone off, the fire department is authorized to inspect for fire, and there is a provision under the law about failure to obey a lawful command (to open the door so that they can look for fire). Problem: you cannot know whether the order is lawful. The officer doesn't decide what is lawful, the courts do (after the fact), and typically a command is found to be lawful unless it is clearly unlawful.



The order from your supervisor is not "enforceable" in the sense that you can be arrested and imprisoned or fined for disobeying the boss. However, there is a potential club they can use against you, namely firing you for disobeying the order. Normally, you can be fired for wearing the wrong shirt. But there are laws about employers doing illegal things, such as ORC 4113.52, which provides recourse when




the employee reasonably believes that the violation is a criminal
offense that is likely to cause an imminent risk of physical harm to
persons or a hazard to public health or safety




etc. In which case you report this to the supervisor, they have 24 hours after getting the report to correct the situation, and after that you would report the situation to the county prosecutor. (Read all of the details in the linked law, don't just skip steps: this is an executive summary). Having done this, you are protected from being fired, demoted. reassigned etc. The employer will be strongly motivated to not incur the penalties for violating the whistle blower statute. Additionally, you can sue the employer if they fire you for refusing to violate the law (termination in violation of public policy).






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    active

    oldest

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    2














    There is a state law that requires you to obey the police: ORC 2917.13, which says you may not




    Fail to obey the lawful order of any law enforcement officer engaged
    in the law enforcement officer's duties at the scene of or in
    connection with a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
    kind.




    If you do,




    misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a
    violation of this section creates a risk of physical harm to persons
    or property, misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the first
    degree.




    You also cannot




    Hamper the lawful operations of any law enforcement officer,
    firefighter, rescuer, medical person, emergency medical services
    person, or other authorized person, engaged in the person's duties at
    the scene of a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
    kind




    "Hamper" is not defined statutorily, but the plain meaning of "hamper" is not the same as "fail to assist". We have not established that the order is lawful, however, which is crucial. The police cannot just freely search a residence without permission. If they have permission from the occupant, they can search and seize. If they have probable cause to believe that a crime exists and the circumstances make a warrant impractical, they can search and seize. I don't know what you mean by "wellness check", but that seems plainly to be unlawful entry. However, if the resident calls 911 and reports that he is having an issue, that is sufficient consent for entry.



    In the case of a fire alarm, the fire code authorizes a fire department official in charge of an actual emergency response incident to order the evacuation of a building, and occupants are required to comply. If we suppose that the smoke detector in a room has gone off, the fire department is authorized to inspect for fire, and there is a provision under the law about failure to obey a lawful command (to open the door so that they can look for fire). Problem: you cannot know whether the order is lawful. The officer doesn't decide what is lawful, the courts do (after the fact), and typically a command is found to be lawful unless it is clearly unlawful.



    The order from your supervisor is not "enforceable" in the sense that you can be arrested and imprisoned or fined for disobeying the boss. However, there is a potential club they can use against you, namely firing you for disobeying the order. Normally, you can be fired for wearing the wrong shirt. But there are laws about employers doing illegal things, such as ORC 4113.52, which provides recourse when




    the employee reasonably believes that the violation is a criminal
    offense that is likely to cause an imminent risk of physical harm to
    persons or a hazard to public health or safety




    etc. In which case you report this to the supervisor, they have 24 hours after getting the report to correct the situation, and after that you would report the situation to the county prosecutor. (Read all of the details in the linked law, don't just skip steps: this is an executive summary). Having done this, you are protected from being fired, demoted. reassigned etc. The employer will be strongly motivated to not incur the penalties for violating the whistle blower statute. Additionally, you can sue the employer if they fire you for refusing to violate the law (termination in violation of public policy).






    share|improve this answer



























      2














      There is a state law that requires you to obey the police: ORC 2917.13, which says you may not




      Fail to obey the lawful order of any law enforcement officer engaged
      in the law enforcement officer's duties at the scene of or in
      connection with a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
      kind.




      If you do,




      misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a
      violation of this section creates a risk of physical harm to persons
      or property, misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the first
      degree.




      You also cannot




      Hamper the lawful operations of any law enforcement officer,
      firefighter, rescuer, medical person, emergency medical services
      person, or other authorized person, engaged in the person's duties at
      the scene of a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
      kind




      "Hamper" is not defined statutorily, but the plain meaning of "hamper" is not the same as "fail to assist". We have not established that the order is lawful, however, which is crucial. The police cannot just freely search a residence without permission. If they have permission from the occupant, they can search and seize. If they have probable cause to believe that a crime exists and the circumstances make a warrant impractical, they can search and seize. I don't know what you mean by "wellness check", but that seems plainly to be unlawful entry. However, if the resident calls 911 and reports that he is having an issue, that is sufficient consent for entry.



      In the case of a fire alarm, the fire code authorizes a fire department official in charge of an actual emergency response incident to order the evacuation of a building, and occupants are required to comply. If we suppose that the smoke detector in a room has gone off, the fire department is authorized to inspect for fire, and there is a provision under the law about failure to obey a lawful command (to open the door so that they can look for fire). Problem: you cannot know whether the order is lawful. The officer doesn't decide what is lawful, the courts do (after the fact), and typically a command is found to be lawful unless it is clearly unlawful.



      The order from your supervisor is not "enforceable" in the sense that you can be arrested and imprisoned or fined for disobeying the boss. However, there is a potential club they can use against you, namely firing you for disobeying the order. Normally, you can be fired for wearing the wrong shirt. But there are laws about employers doing illegal things, such as ORC 4113.52, which provides recourse when




      the employee reasonably believes that the violation is a criminal
      offense that is likely to cause an imminent risk of physical harm to
      persons or a hazard to public health or safety




      etc. In which case you report this to the supervisor, they have 24 hours after getting the report to correct the situation, and after that you would report the situation to the county prosecutor. (Read all of the details in the linked law, don't just skip steps: this is an executive summary). Having done this, you are protected from being fired, demoted. reassigned etc. The employer will be strongly motivated to not incur the penalties for violating the whistle blower statute. Additionally, you can sue the employer if they fire you for refusing to violate the law (termination in violation of public policy).






      share|improve this answer

























        2












        2








        2







        There is a state law that requires you to obey the police: ORC 2917.13, which says you may not




        Fail to obey the lawful order of any law enforcement officer engaged
        in the law enforcement officer's duties at the scene of or in
        connection with a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
        kind.




        If you do,




        misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a
        violation of this section creates a risk of physical harm to persons
        or property, misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the first
        degree.




        You also cannot




        Hamper the lawful operations of any law enforcement officer,
        firefighter, rescuer, medical person, emergency medical services
        person, or other authorized person, engaged in the person's duties at
        the scene of a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
        kind




        "Hamper" is not defined statutorily, but the plain meaning of "hamper" is not the same as "fail to assist". We have not established that the order is lawful, however, which is crucial. The police cannot just freely search a residence without permission. If they have permission from the occupant, they can search and seize. If they have probable cause to believe that a crime exists and the circumstances make a warrant impractical, they can search and seize. I don't know what you mean by "wellness check", but that seems plainly to be unlawful entry. However, if the resident calls 911 and reports that he is having an issue, that is sufficient consent for entry.



        In the case of a fire alarm, the fire code authorizes a fire department official in charge of an actual emergency response incident to order the evacuation of a building, and occupants are required to comply. If we suppose that the smoke detector in a room has gone off, the fire department is authorized to inspect for fire, and there is a provision under the law about failure to obey a lawful command (to open the door so that they can look for fire). Problem: you cannot know whether the order is lawful. The officer doesn't decide what is lawful, the courts do (after the fact), and typically a command is found to be lawful unless it is clearly unlawful.



        The order from your supervisor is not "enforceable" in the sense that you can be arrested and imprisoned or fined for disobeying the boss. However, there is a potential club they can use against you, namely firing you for disobeying the order. Normally, you can be fired for wearing the wrong shirt. But there are laws about employers doing illegal things, such as ORC 4113.52, which provides recourse when




        the employee reasonably believes that the violation is a criminal
        offense that is likely to cause an imminent risk of physical harm to
        persons or a hazard to public health or safety




        etc. In which case you report this to the supervisor, they have 24 hours after getting the report to correct the situation, and after that you would report the situation to the county prosecutor. (Read all of the details in the linked law, don't just skip steps: this is an executive summary). Having done this, you are protected from being fired, demoted. reassigned etc. The employer will be strongly motivated to not incur the penalties for violating the whistle blower statute. Additionally, you can sue the employer if they fire you for refusing to violate the law (termination in violation of public policy).






        share|improve this answer













        There is a state law that requires you to obey the police: ORC 2917.13, which says you may not




        Fail to obey the lawful order of any law enforcement officer engaged
        in the law enforcement officer's duties at the scene of or in
        connection with a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
        kind.




        If you do,




        misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a
        violation of this section creates a risk of physical harm to persons
        or property, misconduct at an emergency is a misdemeanor of the first
        degree.




        You also cannot




        Hamper the lawful operations of any law enforcement officer,
        firefighter, rescuer, medical person, emergency medical services
        person, or other authorized person, engaged in the person's duties at
        the scene of a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any
        kind




        "Hamper" is not defined statutorily, but the plain meaning of "hamper" is not the same as "fail to assist". We have not established that the order is lawful, however, which is crucial. The police cannot just freely search a residence without permission. If they have permission from the occupant, they can search and seize. If they have probable cause to believe that a crime exists and the circumstances make a warrant impractical, they can search and seize. I don't know what you mean by "wellness check", but that seems plainly to be unlawful entry. However, if the resident calls 911 and reports that he is having an issue, that is sufficient consent for entry.



        In the case of a fire alarm, the fire code authorizes a fire department official in charge of an actual emergency response incident to order the evacuation of a building, and occupants are required to comply. If we suppose that the smoke detector in a room has gone off, the fire department is authorized to inspect for fire, and there is a provision under the law about failure to obey a lawful command (to open the door so that they can look for fire). Problem: you cannot know whether the order is lawful. The officer doesn't decide what is lawful, the courts do (after the fact), and typically a command is found to be lawful unless it is clearly unlawful.



        The order from your supervisor is not "enforceable" in the sense that you can be arrested and imprisoned or fined for disobeying the boss. However, there is a potential club they can use against you, namely firing you for disobeying the order. Normally, you can be fired for wearing the wrong shirt. But there are laws about employers doing illegal things, such as ORC 4113.52, which provides recourse when




        the employee reasonably believes that the violation is a criminal
        offense that is likely to cause an imminent risk of physical harm to
        persons or a hazard to public health or safety




        etc. In which case you report this to the supervisor, they have 24 hours after getting the report to correct the situation, and after that you would report the situation to the county prosecutor. (Read all of the details in the linked law, don't just skip steps: this is an executive summary). Having done this, you are protected from being fired, demoted. reassigned etc. The employer will be strongly motivated to not incur the penalties for violating the whistle blower statute. Additionally, you can sue the employer if they fire you for refusing to violate the law (termination in violation of public policy).







        share|improve this answer












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        answered 7 hours ago









        user6726user6726

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