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What is the difference between true neutral and unaligned?


Can a PC be unaligned?What's the deal with alignment languages?Can a true neutral character cast spells affected by alignment?What is the difference between a god and a primordial?What is the difference between a god and demigod?Is my D&D 5e Homebrew Necrolyte Race Balanced?What is the difference between Simple and Martial weapons?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








5












$begingroup$


Something I’ve never gotten is that true neutral and unaligned seem to be the same in the long run. The only difference is that unaligned is for wild animals, and true neutral is for intelligent creatures - pne being driven by instinct and the other by choice.



Similarities



  • Neither leans towards good or evil nor law vs. chaos

  • Both do what seems right at the time

Differences



  • The reasoning behind their action is the only one I can seem to find









share|improve this question











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Questions about alignment tend not to work well in the stack format unless they’re about the raw mechanics. This will likely get closed as POB.
    $endgroup$
    – sevenbrokenbricks
    8 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    This isn’t really opinion based it’s pretty factual. Asking where does x belong on the axis is opinion based. But this isn’t that. I’m asking what the difference between two seeming similar alignments are which isn’t opinion based. The first being morality and the second about how two things in a system are defined.
    $endgroup$
    – Mage in the Barrel
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a PC be unaligned?.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @indigochild I don't think it's dupe, they're not asking if they can be, they're asking how it's different from True Neutral.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While the morality angle may be subjective, this question can be addressed with mechanics. For example, if there are effects that apply to neutral-aligned creatures but not unaligned creatures, or vice versa.
    $endgroup$
    – MikeQ
    7 hours ago


















5












$begingroup$


Something I’ve never gotten is that true neutral and unaligned seem to be the same in the long run. The only difference is that unaligned is for wild animals, and true neutral is for intelligent creatures - pne being driven by instinct and the other by choice.



Similarities



  • Neither leans towards good or evil nor law vs. chaos

  • Both do what seems right at the time

Differences



  • The reasoning behind their action is the only one I can seem to find









share|improve this question











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Questions about alignment tend not to work well in the stack format unless they’re about the raw mechanics. This will likely get closed as POB.
    $endgroup$
    – sevenbrokenbricks
    8 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    This isn’t really opinion based it’s pretty factual. Asking where does x belong on the axis is opinion based. But this isn’t that. I’m asking what the difference between two seeming similar alignments are which isn’t opinion based. The first being morality and the second about how two things in a system are defined.
    $endgroup$
    – Mage in the Barrel
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a PC be unaligned?.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @indigochild I don't think it's dupe, they're not asking if they can be, they're asking how it's different from True Neutral.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While the morality angle may be subjective, this question can be addressed with mechanics. For example, if there are effects that apply to neutral-aligned creatures but not unaligned creatures, or vice versa.
    $endgroup$
    – MikeQ
    7 hours ago














5












5








5





$begingroup$


Something I’ve never gotten is that true neutral and unaligned seem to be the same in the long run. The only difference is that unaligned is for wild animals, and true neutral is for intelligent creatures - pne being driven by instinct and the other by choice.



Similarities



  • Neither leans towards good or evil nor law vs. chaos

  • Both do what seems right at the time

Differences



  • The reasoning behind their action is the only one I can seem to find









share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Something I’ve never gotten is that true neutral and unaligned seem to be the same in the long run. The only difference is that unaligned is for wild animals, and true neutral is for intelligent creatures - pne being driven by instinct and the other by choice.



Similarities



  • Neither leans towards good or evil nor law vs. chaos

  • Both do what seems right at the time

Differences



  • The reasoning behind their action is the only one I can seem to find






dnd-5e alignment






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 3 hours ago









V2Blast

33.8k5 gold badges123 silver badges212 bronze badges




33.8k5 gold badges123 silver badges212 bronze badges










asked 8 hours ago









Mage in the BarrelMage in the Barrel

5293 silver badges13 bronze badges




5293 silver badges13 bronze badges














  • $begingroup$
    Questions about alignment tend not to work well in the stack format unless they’re about the raw mechanics. This will likely get closed as POB.
    $endgroup$
    – sevenbrokenbricks
    8 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    This isn’t really opinion based it’s pretty factual. Asking where does x belong on the axis is opinion based. But this isn’t that. I’m asking what the difference between two seeming similar alignments are which isn’t opinion based. The first being morality and the second about how two things in a system are defined.
    $endgroup$
    – Mage in the Barrel
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a PC be unaligned?.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @indigochild I don't think it's dupe, they're not asking if they can be, they're asking how it's different from True Neutral.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While the morality angle may be subjective, this question can be addressed with mechanics. For example, if there are effects that apply to neutral-aligned creatures but not unaligned creatures, or vice versa.
    $endgroup$
    – MikeQ
    7 hours ago

















  • $begingroup$
    Questions about alignment tend not to work well in the stack format unless they’re about the raw mechanics. This will likely get closed as POB.
    $endgroup$
    – sevenbrokenbricks
    8 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    This isn’t really opinion based it’s pretty factual. Asking where does x belong on the axis is opinion based. But this isn’t that. I’m asking what the difference between two seeming similar alignments are which isn’t opinion based. The first being morality and the second about how two things in a system are defined.
    $endgroup$
    – Mage in the Barrel
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a PC be unaligned?.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @indigochild I don't think it's dupe, they're not asking if they can be, they're asking how it's different from True Neutral.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    While the morality angle may be subjective, this question can be addressed with mechanics. For example, if there are effects that apply to neutral-aligned creatures but not unaligned creatures, or vice versa.
    $endgroup$
    – MikeQ
    7 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Questions about alignment tend not to work well in the stack format unless they’re about the raw mechanics. This will likely get closed as POB.
$endgroup$
– sevenbrokenbricks
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Questions about alignment tend not to work well in the stack format unless they’re about the raw mechanics. This will likely get closed as POB.
$endgroup$
– sevenbrokenbricks
8 hours ago




5




5




$begingroup$
This isn’t really opinion based it’s pretty factual. Asking where does x belong on the axis is opinion based. But this isn’t that. I’m asking what the difference between two seeming similar alignments are which isn’t opinion based. The first being morality and the second about how two things in a system are defined.
$endgroup$
– Mage in the Barrel
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
This isn’t really opinion based it’s pretty factual. Asking where does x belong on the axis is opinion based. But this isn’t that. I’m asking what the difference between two seeming similar alignments are which isn’t opinion based. The first being morality and the second about how two things in a system are defined.
$endgroup$
– Mage in the Barrel
8 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
Related on Can a PC be unaligned?.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Related on Can a PC be unaligned?.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
@indigochild I don't think it's dupe, they're not asking if they can be, they're asking how it's different from True Neutral.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
@indigochild I don't think it's dupe, they're not asking if they can be, they're asking how it's different from True Neutral.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
7 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
While the morality angle may be subjective, this question can be addressed with mechanics. For example, if there are effects that apply to neutral-aligned creatures but not unaligned creatures, or vice versa.
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
7 hours ago





$begingroup$
While the morality angle may be subjective, this question can be addressed with mechanics. For example, if there are effects that apply to neutral-aligned creatures but not unaligned creatures, or vice versa.
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
7 hours ago











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















7











$begingroup$

Unaligned specifically describes the "alignment" of creatures that lack the intellectual capacity to understand morals and ethics, as the Basic Rules describes:




Most creatures that lack the capacity for rational thought do not have alignments—they are unaligned. Such a creature is incapable of making a moral or ethical choice and acts according to its bestial nature. Sharks are savage predators, for example, but they are not evil; they have no alignment.




What this is meant to convey is that a creature that lacks the capacity for moral reasoning can do things which would absolutely be considered evil (or good, or lawful or chaotic) actions, were it a creature with the capacity for moral reasoning, but that doesn't make it actually evil (or good, or chaotic or lawful).



To take an example from popular culture, the common domestic housecat has a reputation for apparent sadism and cruelty based on how it hunts and "plays with its food". Were the cat an intelligent creature who chose to act that way towards its prey, it could quite fairly be called evil; it effectively often tortures prey animals for no practical purpose. However, a cat is not capable of moral reasoning, and it is not reasonable to ascribe an alignment to it - the game makes this explicit by calling such creatures unaligned.



Being unaligned is not the same as being neutral, since being neutral describes an intelligent creature that takes an overall neutral moral/ethical stance, but an unaligned creature could display any manner of cruel, altruistic, random or ordered behaviour without that having any impact on its mechanical alignment.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$






















    7











    $begingroup$

    The reasoning behind their actions is what alignment means



    You hit the nail on the head when you said




    unaligned is wild animals and true neutral being for intelligent creatures.




    Alignment is a choice (most of the time), it's a philosophy and world outlook that a creature capable of thinking uses to interact with the world.



    Animals (and certain other things like oozes, aberrations, monstrosities, whatever) lack the intelligence to choose to follow their alignment, they just do. A wolf or a cow or a black pudding doesn't choose to eat things, it just reacts based on instinct. They are amoral (lacking morality).



    Carcer pointed out that outsiders like Fiends and Celestials also cannot choose their alignment, it's intrinsic to what they are, but they can still choose their behavior based on their alignment, whereas an unaligned thing doesn't choose at all.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$










    • 1




      $begingroup$
      To be precise, the text is also clear that for fiends and celestials, alignment is not a choice - they are what they are because it's fundamental to their nature. A devil is lawful evil by instinct and nature rather than by deliberate choice. The distinction is that the devil is smart enough to introspect and understand that its actions are lawful and evil, even if it doesn't have a real choice about behaving that way.
      $endgroup$
      – Carcer
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Might be worth pointing out that outsiders that change alignment become something else entirely. Zariel as an example (p10 MTOF), outsiders like angels and devils lack a dual nature (soul and body) so their entire being changes if they "fall" or "rise" so to speak.
      $endgroup$
      – Slagmoth
      6 hours ago














    Your Answer








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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    7











    $begingroup$

    Unaligned specifically describes the "alignment" of creatures that lack the intellectual capacity to understand morals and ethics, as the Basic Rules describes:




    Most creatures that lack the capacity for rational thought do not have alignments—they are unaligned. Such a creature is incapable of making a moral or ethical choice and acts according to its bestial nature. Sharks are savage predators, for example, but they are not evil; they have no alignment.




    What this is meant to convey is that a creature that lacks the capacity for moral reasoning can do things which would absolutely be considered evil (or good, or lawful or chaotic) actions, were it a creature with the capacity for moral reasoning, but that doesn't make it actually evil (or good, or chaotic or lawful).



    To take an example from popular culture, the common domestic housecat has a reputation for apparent sadism and cruelty based on how it hunts and "plays with its food". Were the cat an intelligent creature who chose to act that way towards its prey, it could quite fairly be called evil; it effectively often tortures prey animals for no practical purpose. However, a cat is not capable of moral reasoning, and it is not reasonable to ascribe an alignment to it - the game makes this explicit by calling such creatures unaligned.



    Being unaligned is not the same as being neutral, since being neutral describes an intelligent creature that takes an overall neutral moral/ethical stance, but an unaligned creature could display any manner of cruel, altruistic, random or ordered behaviour without that having any impact on its mechanical alignment.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



















      7











      $begingroup$

      Unaligned specifically describes the "alignment" of creatures that lack the intellectual capacity to understand morals and ethics, as the Basic Rules describes:




      Most creatures that lack the capacity for rational thought do not have alignments—they are unaligned. Such a creature is incapable of making a moral or ethical choice and acts according to its bestial nature. Sharks are savage predators, for example, but they are not evil; they have no alignment.




      What this is meant to convey is that a creature that lacks the capacity for moral reasoning can do things which would absolutely be considered evil (or good, or lawful or chaotic) actions, were it a creature with the capacity for moral reasoning, but that doesn't make it actually evil (or good, or chaotic or lawful).



      To take an example from popular culture, the common domestic housecat has a reputation for apparent sadism and cruelty based on how it hunts and "plays with its food". Were the cat an intelligent creature who chose to act that way towards its prey, it could quite fairly be called evil; it effectively often tortures prey animals for no practical purpose. However, a cat is not capable of moral reasoning, and it is not reasonable to ascribe an alignment to it - the game makes this explicit by calling such creatures unaligned.



      Being unaligned is not the same as being neutral, since being neutral describes an intelligent creature that takes an overall neutral moral/ethical stance, but an unaligned creature could display any manner of cruel, altruistic, random or ordered behaviour without that having any impact on its mechanical alignment.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        7












        7








        7





        $begingroup$

        Unaligned specifically describes the "alignment" of creatures that lack the intellectual capacity to understand morals and ethics, as the Basic Rules describes:




        Most creatures that lack the capacity for rational thought do not have alignments—they are unaligned. Such a creature is incapable of making a moral or ethical choice and acts according to its bestial nature. Sharks are savage predators, for example, but they are not evil; they have no alignment.




        What this is meant to convey is that a creature that lacks the capacity for moral reasoning can do things which would absolutely be considered evil (or good, or lawful or chaotic) actions, were it a creature with the capacity for moral reasoning, but that doesn't make it actually evil (or good, or chaotic or lawful).



        To take an example from popular culture, the common domestic housecat has a reputation for apparent sadism and cruelty based on how it hunts and "plays with its food". Were the cat an intelligent creature who chose to act that way towards its prey, it could quite fairly be called evil; it effectively often tortures prey animals for no practical purpose. However, a cat is not capable of moral reasoning, and it is not reasonable to ascribe an alignment to it - the game makes this explicit by calling such creatures unaligned.



        Being unaligned is not the same as being neutral, since being neutral describes an intelligent creature that takes an overall neutral moral/ethical stance, but an unaligned creature could display any manner of cruel, altruistic, random or ordered behaviour without that having any impact on its mechanical alignment.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Unaligned specifically describes the "alignment" of creatures that lack the intellectual capacity to understand morals and ethics, as the Basic Rules describes:




        Most creatures that lack the capacity for rational thought do not have alignments—they are unaligned. Such a creature is incapable of making a moral or ethical choice and acts according to its bestial nature. Sharks are savage predators, for example, but they are not evil; they have no alignment.




        What this is meant to convey is that a creature that lacks the capacity for moral reasoning can do things which would absolutely be considered evil (or good, or lawful or chaotic) actions, were it a creature with the capacity for moral reasoning, but that doesn't make it actually evil (or good, or chaotic or lawful).



        To take an example from popular culture, the common domestic housecat has a reputation for apparent sadism and cruelty based on how it hunts and "plays with its food". Were the cat an intelligent creature who chose to act that way towards its prey, it could quite fairly be called evil; it effectively often tortures prey animals for no practical purpose. However, a cat is not capable of moral reasoning, and it is not reasonable to ascribe an alignment to it - the game makes this explicit by calling such creatures unaligned.



        Being unaligned is not the same as being neutral, since being neutral describes an intelligent creature that takes an overall neutral moral/ethical stance, but an unaligned creature could display any manner of cruel, altruistic, random or ordered behaviour without that having any impact on its mechanical alignment.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 7 hours ago









        CarcerCarcer

        34.2k6 gold badges111 silver badges174 bronze badges




        34.2k6 gold badges111 silver badges174 bronze badges


























            7











            $begingroup$

            The reasoning behind their actions is what alignment means



            You hit the nail on the head when you said




            unaligned is wild animals and true neutral being for intelligent creatures.




            Alignment is a choice (most of the time), it's a philosophy and world outlook that a creature capable of thinking uses to interact with the world.



            Animals (and certain other things like oozes, aberrations, monstrosities, whatever) lack the intelligence to choose to follow their alignment, they just do. A wolf or a cow or a black pudding doesn't choose to eat things, it just reacts based on instinct. They are amoral (lacking morality).



            Carcer pointed out that outsiders like Fiends and Celestials also cannot choose their alignment, it's intrinsic to what they are, but they can still choose their behavior based on their alignment, whereas an unaligned thing doesn't choose at all.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$










            • 1




              $begingroup$
              To be precise, the text is also clear that for fiends and celestials, alignment is not a choice - they are what they are because it's fundamental to their nature. A devil is lawful evil by instinct and nature rather than by deliberate choice. The distinction is that the devil is smart enough to introspect and understand that its actions are lawful and evil, even if it doesn't have a real choice about behaving that way.
              $endgroup$
              – Carcer
              7 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Might be worth pointing out that outsiders that change alignment become something else entirely. Zariel as an example (p10 MTOF), outsiders like angels and devils lack a dual nature (soul and body) so their entire being changes if they "fall" or "rise" so to speak.
              $endgroup$
              – Slagmoth
              6 hours ago
















            7











            $begingroup$

            The reasoning behind their actions is what alignment means



            You hit the nail on the head when you said




            unaligned is wild animals and true neutral being for intelligent creatures.




            Alignment is a choice (most of the time), it's a philosophy and world outlook that a creature capable of thinking uses to interact with the world.



            Animals (and certain other things like oozes, aberrations, monstrosities, whatever) lack the intelligence to choose to follow their alignment, they just do. A wolf or a cow or a black pudding doesn't choose to eat things, it just reacts based on instinct. They are amoral (lacking morality).



            Carcer pointed out that outsiders like Fiends and Celestials also cannot choose their alignment, it's intrinsic to what they are, but they can still choose their behavior based on their alignment, whereas an unaligned thing doesn't choose at all.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$










            • 1




              $begingroup$
              To be precise, the text is also clear that for fiends and celestials, alignment is not a choice - they are what they are because it's fundamental to their nature. A devil is lawful evil by instinct and nature rather than by deliberate choice. The distinction is that the devil is smart enough to introspect and understand that its actions are lawful and evil, even if it doesn't have a real choice about behaving that way.
              $endgroup$
              – Carcer
              7 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Might be worth pointing out that outsiders that change alignment become something else entirely. Zariel as an example (p10 MTOF), outsiders like angels and devils lack a dual nature (soul and body) so their entire being changes if they "fall" or "rise" so to speak.
              $endgroup$
              – Slagmoth
              6 hours ago














            7












            7








            7





            $begingroup$

            The reasoning behind their actions is what alignment means



            You hit the nail on the head when you said




            unaligned is wild animals and true neutral being for intelligent creatures.




            Alignment is a choice (most of the time), it's a philosophy and world outlook that a creature capable of thinking uses to interact with the world.



            Animals (and certain other things like oozes, aberrations, monstrosities, whatever) lack the intelligence to choose to follow their alignment, they just do. A wolf or a cow or a black pudding doesn't choose to eat things, it just reacts based on instinct. They are amoral (lacking morality).



            Carcer pointed out that outsiders like Fiends and Celestials also cannot choose their alignment, it's intrinsic to what they are, but they can still choose their behavior based on their alignment, whereas an unaligned thing doesn't choose at all.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            The reasoning behind their actions is what alignment means



            You hit the nail on the head when you said




            unaligned is wild animals and true neutral being for intelligent creatures.




            Alignment is a choice (most of the time), it's a philosophy and world outlook that a creature capable of thinking uses to interact with the world.



            Animals (and certain other things like oozes, aberrations, monstrosities, whatever) lack the intelligence to choose to follow their alignment, they just do. A wolf or a cow or a black pudding doesn't choose to eat things, it just reacts based on instinct. They are amoral (lacking morality).



            Carcer pointed out that outsiders like Fiends and Celestials also cannot choose their alignment, it's intrinsic to what they are, but they can still choose their behavior based on their alignment, whereas an unaligned thing doesn't choose at all.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 7 hours ago

























            answered 7 hours ago









            GreySageGreySage

            17k4 gold badges60 silver badges107 bronze badges




            17k4 gold badges60 silver badges107 bronze badges










            • 1




              $begingroup$
              To be precise, the text is also clear that for fiends and celestials, alignment is not a choice - they are what they are because it's fundamental to their nature. A devil is lawful evil by instinct and nature rather than by deliberate choice. The distinction is that the devil is smart enough to introspect and understand that its actions are lawful and evil, even if it doesn't have a real choice about behaving that way.
              $endgroup$
              – Carcer
              7 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Might be worth pointing out that outsiders that change alignment become something else entirely. Zariel as an example (p10 MTOF), outsiders like angels and devils lack a dual nature (soul and body) so their entire being changes if they "fall" or "rise" so to speak.
              $endgroup$
              – Slagmoth
              6 hours ago













            • 1




              $begingroup$
              To be precise, the text is also clear that for fiends and celestials, alignment is not a choice - they are what they are because it's fundamental to their nature. A devil is lawful evil by instinct and nature rather than by deliberate choice. The distinction is that the devil is smart enough to introspect and understand that its actions are lawful and evil, even if it doesn't have a real choice about behaving that way.
              $endgroup$
              – Carcer
              7 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Might be worth pointing out that outsiders that change alignment become something else entirely. Zariel as an example (p10 MTOF), outsiders like angels and devils lack a dual nature (soul and body) so their entire being changes if they "fall" or "rise" so to speak.
              $endgroup$
              – Slagmoth
              6 hours ago








            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            To be precise, the text is also clear that for fiends and celestials, alignment is not a choice - they are what they are because it's fundamental to their nature. A devil is lawful evil by instinct and nature rather than by deliberate choice. The distinction is that the devil is smart enough to introspect and understand that its actions are lawful and evil, even if it doesn't have a real choice about behaving that way.
            $endgroup$
            – Carcer
            7 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            To be precise, the text is also clear that for fiends and celestials, alignment is not a choice - they are what they are because it's fundamental to their nature. A devil is lawful evil by instinct and nature rather than by deliberate choice. The distinction is that the devil is smart enough to introspect and understand that its actions are lawful and evil, even if it doesn't have a real choice about behaving that way.
            $endgroup$
            – Carcer
            7 hours ago




            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            Might be worth pointing out that outsiders that change alignment become something else entirely. Zariel as an example (p10 MTOF), outsiders like angels and devils lack a dual nature (soul and body) so their entire being changes if they "fall" or "rise" so to speak.
            $endgroup$
            – Slagmoth
            6 hours ago





            $begingroup$
            Might be worth pointing out that outsiders that change alignment become something else entirely. Zariel as an example (p10 MTOF), outsiders like angels and devils lack a dual nature (soul and body) so their entire being changes if they "fall" or "rise" so to speak.
            $endgroup$
            – Slagmoth
            6 hours ago


















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