When did the anonymous “you” become popular in western pop music?How can you get a Country and Western sound with just a guitar and vocal?Lyric writing - books or essays?When writing music, is there an optimal speed for vocal parts?How can you retain the melody or tune you come up with in your head?When writing a melody on top of a riff, is there a rule for what types of notes you use?When to start signaling a change in pop music?What are the methods used while writing pop music that make it so recognizably popis there a name in music when the melody changes the chord name or function?Are there fewer rhymes in contemporary popular music? If so, why?Does a vocal melody have any rhythmic responsibility to the underlying arrangement in pop music?
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When did the anonymous "you" become popular in western pop music?
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When did the anonymous “you” become popular in western pop music?
How can you get a Country and Western sound with just a guitar and vocal?Lyric writing - books or essays?When writing music, is there an optimal speed for vocal parts?How can you retain the melody or tune you come up with in your head?When writing a melody on top of a riff, is there a rule for what types of notes you use?When to start signaling a change in pop music?What are the methods used while writing pop music that make it so recognizably popis there a name in music when the melody changes the chord name or function?Are there fewer rhymes in contemporary popular music? If so, why?Does a vocal melody have any rhythmic responsibility to the underlying arrangement in pop music?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
This question might sound a bit facetious but I have been wondering for a long time. Many western pop songs are addressed to an anonymous "you". Presumably the song writer wants to write a song that could be about anyone and not a particular person, and I do get that. But I was wondering at what point in the history of western popular music did this become common?
I can think of at least a World War 2 example ("I'll be home for Christmas") in which "you" appears (in the lyrics "you can count on me") but I expect it was long before that.
Was there a particular point where "you" became common, and if so, when? If not, was it always common?
songwriting
add a comment |
This question might sound a bit facetious but I have been wondering for a long time. Many western pop songs are addressed to an anonymous "you". Presumably the song writer wants to write a song that could be about anyone and not a particular person, and I do get that. But I was wondering at what point in the history of western popular music did this become common?
I can think of at least a World War 2 example ("I'll be home for Christmas") in which "you" appears (in the lyrics "you can count on me") but I expect it was long before that.
Was there a particular point where "you" became common, and if so, when? If not, was it always common?
songwriting
Some of the earliest world war one-era Cole Porter songs are like that.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
2
If your lover's name is Johnny, Ida, Gloria, Michelle, or even Linda, you're in luck: there's a song you can sing with that person's name. But that's at most only one or two songs for anyone other than Johnny or Gloria. Many people have no song named after them. You can sing a "you" song to anybody and it fits.
– Mark Lutton
5 hours ago
It's probably gone on for as long as songs have been written - and sung. Imagine someone singing a song that quotes someone's name to someone of a different name! Using the word 'you' means that a song can be sung to anyone, whilst gazing into their eyes, and the 'you' actually translates as this song is for 'you'. Now, the anonymity disappears.
– Tim
42 mins ago
add a comment |
This question might sound a bit facetious but I have been wondering for a long time. Many western pop songs are addressed to an anonymous "you". Presumably the song writer wants to write a song that could be about anyone and not a particular person, and I do get that. But I was wondering at what point in the history of western popular music did this become common?
I can think of at least a World War 2 example ("I'll be home for Christmas") in which "you" appears (in the lyrics "you can count on me") but I expect it was long before that.
Was there a particular point where "you" became common, and if so, when? If not, was it always common?
songwriting
This question might sound a bit facetious but I have been wondering for a long time. Many western pop songs are addressed to an anonymous "you". Presumably the song writer wants to write a song that could be about anyone and not a particular person, and I do get that. But I was wondering at what point in the history of western popular music did this become common?
I can think of at least a World War 2 example ("I'll be home for Christmas") in which "you" appears (in the lyrics "you can count on me") but I expect it was long before that.
Was there a particular point where "you" became common, and if so, when? If not, was it always common?
songwriting
songwriting
asked 8 hours ago
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Michael StachowskyMichael Stachowsky
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Some of the earliest world war one-era Cole Porter songs are like that.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
2
If your lover's name is Johnny, Ida, Gloria, Michelle, or even Linda, you're in luck: there's a song you can sing with that person's name. But that's at most only one or two songs for anyone other than Johnny or Gloria. Many people have no song named after them. You can sing a "you" song to anybody and it fits.
– Mark Lutton
5 hours ago
It's probably gone on for as long as songs have been written - and sung. Imagine someone singing a song that quotes someone's name to someone of a different name! Using the word 'you' means that a song can be sung to anyone, whilst gazing into their eyes, and the 'you' actually translates as this song is for 'you'. Now, the anonymity disappears.
– Tim
42 mins ago
add a comment |
Some of the earliest world war one-era Cole Porter songs are like that.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
2
If your lover's name is Johnny, Ida, Gloria, Michelle, or even Linda, you're in luck: there's a song you can sing with that person's name. But that's at most only one or two songs for anyone other than Johnny or Gloria. Many people have no song named after them. You can sing a "you" song to anybody and it fits.
– Mark Lutton
5 hours ago
It's probably gone on for as long as songs have been written - and sung. Imagine someone singing a song that quotes someone's name to someone of a different name! Using the word 'you' means that a song can be sung to anyone, whilst gazing into their eyes, and the 'you' actually translates as this song is for 'you'. Now, the anonymity disappears.
– Tim
42 mins ago
Some of the earliest world war one-era Cole Porter songs are like that.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
Some of the earliest world war one-era Cole Porter songs are like that.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
2
2
If your lover's name is Johnny, Ida, Gloria, Michelle, or even Linda, you're in luck: there's a song you can sing with that person's name. But that's at most only one or two songs for anyone other than Johnny or Gloria. Many people have no song named after them. You can sing a "you" song to anybody and it fits.
– Mark Lutton
5 hours ago
If your lover's name is Johnny, Ida, Gloria, Michelle, or even Linda, you're in luck: there's a song you can sing with that person's name. But that's at most only one or two songs for anyone other than Johnny or Gloria. Many people have no song named after them. You can sing a "you" song to anybody and it fits.
– Mark Lutton
5 hours ago
It's probably gone on for as long as songs have been written - and sung. Imagine someone singing a song that quotes someone's name to someone of a different name! Using the word 'you' means that a song can be sung to anyone, whilst gazing into their eyes, and the 'you' actually translates as this song is for 'you'. Now, the anonymity disappears.
– Tim
42 mins ago
It's probably gone on for as long as songs have been written - and sung. Imagine someone singing a song that quotes someone's name to someone of a different name! Using the word 'you' means that a song can be sung to anyone, whilst gazing into their eyes, and the 'you' actually translates as this song is for 'you'. Now, the anonymity disappears.
– Tim
42 mins ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Odes to someone unspecified by name (if not by profession or by pulchritude) date at least to 1914. Titles of World War I songs include "Oh, You Beautiful Doll," "Your King and Country Wants You," "Don't Bite the Hand That's Feeding You," "Pack Up Your Troubles," "Keep the Home Fires Burning."
Odes in general go back to ancient Greece and have been composed continually since then. Some of those too omit the addressee's name, for instance
Schubert's 1828 song Der Doppelgänger.
As for when this became common, you'd have to run some statistical analysis of a corpus of song lyrics, and look for a knee in the curve. Maybe flag lyrics that have plenty of "you" and an absence of proper names.
add a comment |
I'm going to go with "it was always common". Certainly many Renaissance madrigals are written to "you" (or "thee", as the case may be):
Come again!
Sweet love doth now invite
Thy graces that refrain
To do me due delight.
To see, to hear,
To touch, to kiss,
To die with thee again
in sweetest sympathy.
Come Again, John Dowland, c.1597
Alas, my love, you do me wrong,
to cast me off discourteously;
and I have loved you so long,
delighting in your company.
I have been ready at your hand
To grant whatever you would crave
I have wagered both life and land
Your love and goodwill for to have.
Greensleeves, Unknown c. 1580
And even the oldest love songs/poems are written this way:
Behold, you are beautiful, my love.
Behold, you are beautiful.
Your eyes are doves behind your veil.
Your hair is as a flock of goats, that descend from Mount Gilead.
Your teeth are like a newly shorn flock, which have come up from the washing,
where every one of them has twins. None is bereaved among them.
Your lips are like scarlet thread.
Your mouth is lovely.
Your temples are like a piece of a pomegranate behind your veil.
Your neck is like David's tower built for an armory,
whereon a thousand shields hang, all the shields of the mighty men.
Your two breasts are like two fawns that are twins of a roe, which feed among the lilies.
Until the day is cool, and the shadows flee away,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh, to the hill of frankincense.
You are all beautiful, my love. There is no spot in you.
Song of Solomon, attr. to King Solomon, c. 950 BC
add a comment |
Possibly of Canadian origin, Red River Valley was nonetheless very popular in the US. It was established in Canada by 1896 and may have been composed in the 1870s. It begins "from this valley they say you are going...."
Stephen Foster's Beautiful Dreamer probably dates from 1862.
The Star Spangled Banner begins "o say, can you see...?"
Another answer notes Schubert's Doppelgänger, which sets an untitled poem by Heine. There is also Du bist wie eine Blume, by the same poet, writing in the early 19th century.
Schubert also set both of Goethe's poems with the title Wandrers Nachtlied, written in 1776 and 1780. Both are in the second person, though the first may be addressed to the divine and therefore not anonymous.
Going back a bit farther and returning to English, Shakespeare's song "O Mistress mine" from Twelfth Night, 1601 or 1602, has long been a favorite lyric of composers. "... where are you roaming? O, stay and hear your true love's coming..."
As noted in the other answer, this is a literary device that has been in use for centuries, and it should not be difficult to find examples of its use throughout the history of western lyrical poetry.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
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votes
active
oldest
votes
Odes to someone unspecified by name (if not by profession or by pulchritude) date at least to 1914. Titles of World War I songs include "Oh, You Beautiful Doll," "Your King and Country Wants You," "Don't Bite the Hand That's Feeding You," "Pack Up Your Troubles," "Keep the Home Fires Burning."
Odes in general go back to ancient Greece and have been composed continually since then. Some of those too omit the addressee's name, for instance
Schubert's 1828 song Der Doppelgänger.
As for when this became common, you'd have to run some statistical analysis of a corpus of song lyrics, and look for a knee in the curve. Maybe flag lyrics that have plenty of "you" and an absence of proper names.
add a comment |
Odes to someone unspecified by name (if not by profession or by pulchritude) date at least to 1914. Titles of World War I songs include "Oh, You Beautiful Doll," "Your King and Country Wants You," "Don't Bite the Hand That's Feeding You," "Pack Up Your Troubles," "Keep the Home Fires Burning."
Odes in general go back to ancient Greece and have been composed continually since then. Some of those too omit the addressee's name, for instance
Schubert's 1828 song Der Doppelgänger.
As for when this became common, you'd have to run some statistical analysis of a corpus of song lyrics, and look for a knee in the curve. Maybe flag lyrics that have plenty of "you" and an absence of proper names.
add a comment |
Odes to someone unspecified by name (if not by profession or by pulchritude) date at least to 1914. Titles of World War I songs include "Oh, You Beautiful Doll," "Your King and Country Wants You," "Don't Bite the Hand That's Feeding You," "Pack Up Your Troubles," "Keep the Home Fires Burning."
Odes in general go back to ancient Greece and have been composed continually since then. Some of those too omit the addressee's name, for instance
Schubert's 1828 song Der Doppelgänger.
As for when this became common, you'd have to run some statistical analysis of a corpus of song lyrics, and look for a knee in the curve. Maybe flag lyrics that have plenty of "you" and an absence of proper names.
Odes to someone unspecified by name (if not by profession or by pulchritude) date at least to 1914. Titles of World War I songs include "Oh, You Beautiful Doll," "Your King and Country Wants You," "Don't Bite the Hand That's Feeding You," "Pack Up Your Troubles," "Keep the Home Fires Burning."
Odes in general go back to ancient Greece and have been composed continually since then. Some of those too omit the addressee's name, for instance
Schubert's 1828 song Der Doppelgänger.
As for when this became common, you'd have to run some statistical analysis of a corpus of song lyrics, and look for a knee in the curve. Maybe flag lyrics that have plenty of "you" and an absence of proper names.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago


Camille GoudeseuneCamille Goudeseune
2,25411 silver badges24 bronze badges
2,25411 silver badges24 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
I'm going to go with "it was always common". Certainly many Renaissance madrigals are written to "you" (or "thee", as the case may be):
Come again!
Sweet love doth now invite
Thy graces that refrain
To do me due delight.
To see, to hear,
To touch, to kiss,
To die with thee again
in sweetest sympathy.
Come Again, John Dowland, c.1597
Alas, my love, you do me wrong,
to cast me off discourteously;
and I have loved you so long,
delighting in your company.
I have been ready at your hand
To grant whatever you would crave
I have wagered both life and land
Your love and goodwill for to have.
Greensleeves, Unknown c. 1580
And even the oldest love songs/poems are written this way:
Behold, you are beautiful, my love.
Behold, you are beautiful.
Your eyes are doves behind your veil.
Your hair is as a flock of goats, that descend from Mount Gilead.
Your teeth are like a newly shorn flock, which have come up from the washing,
where every one of them has twins. None is bereaved among them.
Your lips are like scarlet thread.
Your mouth is lovely.
Your temples are like a piece of a pomegranate behind your veil.
Your neck is like David's tower built for an armory,
whereon a thousand shields hang, all the shields of the mighty men.
Your two breasts are like two fawns that are twins of a roe, which feed among the lilies.
Until the day is cool, and the shadows flee away,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh, to the hill of frankincense.
You are all beautiful, my love. There is no spot in you.
Song of Solomon, attr. to King Solomon, c. 950 BC
add a comment |
I'm going to go with "it was always common". Certainly many Renaissance madrigals are written to "you" (or "thee", as the case may be):
Come again!
Sweet love doth now invite
Thy graces that refrain
To do me due delight.
To see, to hear,
To touch, to kiss,
To die with thee again
in sweetest sympathy.
Come Again, John Dowland, c.1597
Alas, my love, you do me wrong,
to cast me off discourteously;
and I have loved you so long,
delighting in your company.
I have been ready at your hand
To grant whatever you would crave
I have wagered both life and land
Your love and goodwill for to have.
Greensleeves, Unknown c. 1580
And even the oldest love songs/poems are written this way:
Behold, you are beautiful, my love.
Behold, you are beautiful.
Your eyes are doves behind your veil.
Your hair is as a flock of goats, that descend from Mount Gilead.
Your teeth are like a newly shorn flock, which have come up from the washing,
where every one of them has twins. None is bereaved among them.
Your lips are like scarlet thread.
Your mouth is lovely.
Your temples are like a piece of a pomegranate behind your veil.
Your neck is like David's tower built for an armory,
whereon a thousand shields hang, all the shields of the mighty men.
Your two breasts are like two fawns that are twins of a roe, which feed among the lilies.
Until the day is cool, and the shadows flee away,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh, to the hill of frankincense.
You are all beautiful, my love. There is no spot in you.
Song of Solomon, attr. to King Solomon, c. 950 BC
add a comment |
I'm going to go with "it was always common". Certainly many Renaissance madrigals are written to "you" (or "thee", as the case may be):
Come again!
Sweet love doth now invite
Thy graces that refrain
To do me due delight.
To see, to hear,
To touch, to kiss,
To die with thee again
in sweetest sympathy.
Come Again, John Dowland, c.1597
Alas, my love, you do me wrong,
to cast me off discourteously;
and I have loved you so long,
delighting in your company.
I have been ready at your hand
To grant whatever you would crave
I have wagered both life and land
Your love and goodwill for to have.
Greensleeves, Unknown c. 1580
And even the oldest love songs/poems are written this way:
Behold, you are beautiful, my love.
Behold, you are beautiful.
Your eyes are doves behind your veil.
Your hair is as a flock of goats, that descend from Mount Gilead.
Your teeth are like a newly shorn flock, which have come up from the washing,
where every one of them has twins. None is bereaved among them.
Your lips are like scarlet thread.
Your mouth is lovely.
Your temples are like a piece of a pomegranate behind your veil.
Your neck is like David's tower built for an armory,
whereon a thousand shields hang, all the shields of the mighty men.
Your two breasts are like two fawns that are twins of a roe, which feed among the lilies.
Until the day is cool, and the shadows flee away,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh, to the hill of frankincense.
You are all beautiful, my love. There is no spot in you.
Song of Solomon, attr. to King Solomon, c. 950 BC
I'm going to go with "it was always common". Certainly many Renaissance madrigals are written to "you" (or "thee", as the case may be):
Come again!
Sweet love doth now invite
Thy graces that refrain
To do me due delight.
To see, to hear,
To touch, to kiss,
To die with thee again
in sweetest sympathy.
Come Again, John Dowland, c.1597
Alas, my love, you do me wrong,
to cast me off discourteously;
and I have loved you so long,
delighting in your company.
I have been ready at your hand
To grant whatever you would crave
I have wagered both life and land
Your love and goodwill for to have.
Greensleeves, Unknown c. 1580
And even the oldest love songs/poems are written this way:
Behold, you are beautiful, my love.
Behold, you are beautiful.
Your eyes are doves behind your veil.
Your hair is as a flock of goats, that descend from Mount Gilead.
Your teeth are like a newly shorn flock, which have come up from the washing,
where every one of them has twins. None is bereaved among them.
Your lips are like scarlet thread.
Your mouth is lovely.
Your temples are like a piece of a pomegranate behind your veil.
Your neck is like David's tower built for an armory,
whereon a thousand shields hang, all the shields of the mighty men.
Your two breasts are like two fawns that are twins of a roe, which feed among the lilies.
Until the day is cool, and the shadows flee away,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh, to the hill of frankincense.
You are all beautiful, my love. There is no spot in you.
Song of Solomon, attr. to King Solomon, c. 950 BC
answered 3 hours ago
Caleb HinesCaleb Hines
16.7k1 gold badge34 silver badges90 bronze badges
16.7k1 gold badge34 silver badges90 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Possibly of Canadian origin, Red River Valley was nonetheless very popular in the US. It was established in Canada by 1896 and may have been composed in the 1870s. It begins "from this valley they say you are going...."
Stephen Foster's Beautiful Dreamer probably dates from 1862.
The Star Spangled Banner begins "o say, can you see...?"
Another answer notes Schubert's Doppelgänger, which sets an untitled poem by Heine. There is also Du bist wie eine Blume, by the same poet, writing in the early 19th century.
Schubert also set both of Goethe's poems with the title Wandrers Nachtlied, written in 1776 and 1780. Both are in the second person, though the first may be addressed to the divine and therefore not anonymous.
Going back a bit farther and returning to English, Shakespeare's song "O Mistress mine" from Twelfth Night, 1601 or 1602, has long been a favorite lyric of composers. "... where are you roaming? O, stay and hear your true love's coming..."
As noted in the other answer, this is a literary device that has been in use for centuries, and it should not be difficult to find examples of its use throughout the history of western lyrical poetry.
add a comment |
Possibly of Canadian origin, Red River Valley was nonetheless very popular in the US. It was established in Canada by 1896 and may have been composed in the 1870s. It begins "from this valley they say you are going...."
Stephen Foster's Beautiful Dreamer probably dates from 1862.
The Star Spangled Banner begins "o say, can you see...?"
Another answer notes Schubert's Doppelgänger, which sets an untitled poem by Heine. There is also Du bist wie eine Blume, by the same poet, writing in the early 19th century.
Schubert also set both of Goethe's poems with the title Wandrers Nachtlied, written in 1776 and 1780. Both are in the second person, though the first may be addressed to the divine and therefore not anonymous.
Going back a bit farther and returning to English, Shakespeare's song "O Mistress mine" from Twelfth Night, 1601 or 1602, has long been a favorite lyric of composers. "... where are you roaming? O, stay and hear your true love's coming..."
As noted in the other answer, this is a literary device that has been in use for centuries, and it should not be difficult to find examples of its use throughout the history of western lyrical poetry.
add a comment |
Possibly of Canadian origin, Red River Valley was nonetheless very popular in the US. It was established in Canada by 1896 and may have been composed in the 1870s. It begins "from this valley they say you are going...."
Stephen Foster's Beautiful Dreamer probably dates from 1862.
The Star Spangled Banner begins "o say, can you see...?"
Another answer notes Schubert's Doppelgänger, which sets an untitled poem by Heine. There is also Du bist wie eine Blume, by the same poet, writing in the early 19th century.
Schubert also set both of Goethe's poems with the title Wandrers Nachtlied, written in 1776 and 1780. Both are in the second person, though the first may be addressed to the divine and therefore not anonymous.
Going back a bit farther and returning to English, Shakespeare's song "O Mistress mine" from Twelfth Night, 1601 or 1602, has long been a favorite lyric of composers. "... where are you roaming? O, stay and hear your true love's coming..."
As noted in the other answer, this is a literary device that has been in use for centuries, and it should not be difficult to find examples of its use throughout the history of western lyrical poetry.
Possibly of Canadian origin, Red River Valley was nonetheless very popular in the US. It was established in Canada by 1896 and may have been composed in the 1870s. It begins "from this valley they say you are going...."
Stephen Foster's Beautiful Dreamer probably dates from 1862.
The Star Spangled Banner begins "o say, can you see...?"
Another answer notes Schubert's Doppelgänger, which sets an untitled poem by Heine. There is also Du bist wie eine Blume, by the same poet, writing in the early 19th century.
Schubert also set both of Goethe's poems with the title Wandrers Nachtlied, written in 1776 and 1780. Both are in the second person, though the first may be addressed to the divine and therefore not anonymous.
Going back a bit farther and returning to English, Shakespeare's song "O Mistress mine" from Twelfth Night, 1601 or 1602, has long been a favorite lyric of composers. "... where are you roaming? O, stay and hear your true love's coming..."
As noted in the other answer, this is a literary device that has been in use for centuries, and it should not be difficult to find examples of its use throughout the history of western lyrical poetry.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
phoogphoog
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Some of the earliest world war one-era Cole Porter songs are like that.
– Your Uncle Bob
8 hours ago
2
If your lover's name is Johnny, Ida, Gloria, Michelle, or even Linda, you're in luck: there's a song you can sing with that person's name. But that's at most only one or two songs for anyone other than Johnny or Gloria. Many people have no song named after them. You can sing a "you" song to anybody and it fits.
– Mark Lutton
5 hours ago
It's probably gone on for as long as songs have been written - and sung. Imagine someone singing a song that quotes someone's name to someone of a different name! Using the word 'you' means that a song can be sung to anyone, whilst gazing into their eyes, and the 'you' actually translates as this song is for 'you'. Now, the anonymity disappears.
– Tim
42 mins ago