In a 2 layer PCB with a top layer densely populated, from an EMI & EMC point of view should the ground plane be on top, bottom or both and why?Dealing with splits in my ground planeTraces over ground planeWhat are the advantages of having two ground pours?Plane pull-back and board keep-outVCC pour and decoupling capacitors on a dual layer boardSplitting Power Tracks/Planes into Different LayersWhich is the best way to ground the top layer copper pour on a PCB?In a 4-layer PCB, operating at a 8-16 MHz clock speed, should there be any copper pour on the top and bottom signal layers?2-layer PCB design, through hole technology and ground planeMaking 2 layer board, using ground pour when I already use ground plane?Four layer board in Altium Designer, the power and ground layer is shown without copper pourWhy are ground pours isolated from each other on the top layer?
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In a 2 layer PCB with a top layer densely populated, from an EMI & EMC point of view should the ground plane be on top, bottom or both and why?
Dealing with splits in my ground planeTraces over ground planeWhat are the advantages of having two ground pours?Plane pull-back and board keep-outVCC pour and decoupling capacitors on a dual layer boardSplitting Power Tracks/Planes into Different LayersWhich is the best way to ground the top layer copper pour on a PCB?In a 4-layer PCB, operating at a 8-16 MHz clock speed, should there be any copper pour on the top and bottom signal layers?2-layer PCB design, through hole technology and ground planeMaking 2 layer board, using ground pour when I already use ground plane?Four layer board in Altium Designer, the power and ground layer is shown without copper pourWhy are ground pours isolated from each other on the top layer?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
Suppose I have a 2 layer PCB with the following characteristics:
- Top layer is relatively densely populated by both THT ad SMD components
- Bottom layer has very few traces
Among the following, what is the best option from a theoretical EMI & EMC point of view and why?
- Top ground plane (copper pour)
- Bottom ground plane (copper pour)
- Both top and bottom ground planes with connecting vias
If you think another option not listed might be better please do propose it and explain why.
This is a theoretical question so I don't have a concrete example to show. Feel free to report some practical examples.
My guess is that option 2 would be the best since it allows for the current to choose the path of least resistance and avoid large loops, although maybe depending on the layout option 3 might also be reasonable.
pcb pcb-design ground emc
asked 10 hours ago
mickkkmickkk
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose I have a 2 layer PCB with the following characteristics:
- Top layer is relatively densely populated by both THT ad SMD components
- Bottom layer has very few traces
Among the following, what is the best option from a theoretical EMI & EMC point of view and why?
- Top ground plane (copper pour)
- Bottom ground plane (copper pour)
- Both top and bottom ground planes with connecting vias
If you think another option not listed might be better please do propose it and explain why.
This is a theoretical question so I don't have a concrete example to show. Feel free to report some practical examples.
My guess is that option 2 would be the best since it allows for the current to choose the path of least resistance and avoid large loops, although maybe depending on the layout option 3 might also be reasonable.
pcb pcb-design ground emc
asked 10 hours ago
mickkkmickkk
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
What makes you think that 1 or 2 is better than 3? Looking at return paths, option 3 is good at least as 1 and 2, since it is both of them...
$endgroup$
– Vladimir Cravero
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you turn the board upside down top becomes bottom.... what’s your question?
$endgroup$
– Andy aka
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Andyaka the point is that one layer is densely populated by components and traces.. (i.e. the top one in this case, but it may be the bottom one as far as the problem is concerned).
$endgroup$
– mickkk
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
related: Dealing with splits in my ground plane and Traces over ground plane
$endgroup$
– Nick Alexeev♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Why are you putting your SMDs on top in a mixed tech board? Generally mixed technology assemblies have the SMDs on the bottom (copper) side along with most of the traces; this was originally done to allow for single-pass wave soldering of all the things, but also allows the top (component) side to serve as the ground plane in a two-layer board.
$endgroup$
– ThreePhaseEel
42 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose I have a 2 layer PCB with the following characteristics:
- Top layer is relatively densely populated by both THT ad SMD components
- Bottom layer has very few traces
Among the following, what is the best option from a theoretical EMI & EMC point of view and why?
- Top ground plane (copper pour)
- Bottom ground plane (copper pour)
- Both top and bottom ground planes with connecting vias
If you think another option not listed might be better please do propose it and explain why.
This is a theoretical question so I don't have a concrete example to show. Feel free to report some practical examples.
My guess is that option 2 would be the best since it allows for the current to choose the path of least resistance and avoid large loops, although maybe depending on the layout option 3 might also be reasonable.
pcb pcb-design ground emc
asked 10 hours ago
mickkkmickkk
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Suppose I have a 2 layer PCB with the following characteristics:
- Top layer is relatively densely populated by both THT ad SMD components
- Bottom layer has very few traces
Among the following, what is the best option from a theoretical EMI & EMC point of view and why?
- Top ground plane (copper pour)
- Bottom ground plane (copper pour)
- Both top and bottom ground planes with connecting vias
If you think another option not listed might be better please do propose it and explain why.
This is a theoretical question so I don't have a concrete example to show. Feel free to report some practical examples.
My guess is that option 2 would be the best since it allows for the current to choose the path of least resistance and avoid large loops, although maybe depending on the layout option 3 might also be reasonable.
pcb pcb-design ground emc
pcb pcb-design ground emc
asked 10 hours ago
mickkkmickkk
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
asked 10 hours ago
mickkkmickkk
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
asked 10 hours ago
mickkkmickkk
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
asked 10 hours ago
mickkkmickkk
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
asked 10 hours ago
mickkkmickkk
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
4843 gold badges7 silver badges23 bronze badges
$begingroup$
What makes you think that 1 or 2 is better than 3? Looking at return paths, option 3 is good at least as 1 and 2, since it is both of them...
$endgroup$
– Vladimir Cravero
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you turn the board upside down top becomes bottom.... what’s your question?
$endgroup$
– Andy aka
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Andyaka the point is that one layer is densely populated by components and traces.. (i.e. the top one in this case, but it may be the bottom one as far as the problem is concerned).
$endgroup$
– mickkk
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
related: Dealing with splits in my ground plane and Traces over ground plane
$endgroup$
– Nick Alexeev♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Why are you putting your SMDs on top in a mixed tech board? Generally mixed technology assemblies have the SMDs on the bottom (copper) side along with most of the traces; this was originally done to allow for single-pass wave soldering of all the things, but also allows the top (component) side to serve as the ground plane in a two-layer board.
$endgroup$
– ThreePhaseEel
42 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What makes you think that 1 or 2 is better than 3? Looking at return paths, option 3 is good at least as 1 and 2, since it is both of them...
$endgroup$
– Vladimir Cravero
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you turn the board upside down top becomes bottom.... what’s your question?
$endgroup$
– Andy aka
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Andyaka the point is that one layer is densely populated by components and traces.. (i.e. the top one in this case, but it may be the bottom one as far as the problem is concerned).
$endgroup$
– mickkk
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
related: Dealing with splits in my ground plane and Traces over ground plane
$endgroup$
– Nick Alexeev♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Why are you putting your SMDs on top in a mixed tech board? Generally mixed technology assemblies have the SMDs on the bottom (copper) side along with most of the traces; this was originally done to allow for single-pass wave soldering of all the things, but also allows the top (component) side to serve as the ground plane in a two-layer board.
$endgroup$
– ThreePhaseEel
42 mins ago
$begingroup$
What makes you think that 1 or 2 is better than 3? Looking at return paths, option 3 is good at least as 1 and 2, since it is both of them...
$endgroup$
– Vladimir Cravero
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
What makes you think that 1 or 2 is better than 3? Looking at return paths, option 3 is good at least as 1 and 2, since it is both of them...
$endgroup$
– Vladimir Cravero
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you turn the board upside down top becomes bottom.... what’s your question?
$endgroup$
– Andy aka
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
If you turn the board upside down top becomes bottom.... what’s your question?
$endgroup$
– Andy aka
10 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Andyaka the point is that one layer is densely populated by components and traces.. (i.e. the top one in this case, but it may be the bottom one as far as the problem is concerned).
$endgroup$
– mickkk
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Andyaka the point is that one layer is densely populated by components and traces.. (i.e. the top one in this case, but it may be the bottom one as far as the problem is concerned).
$endgroup$
– mickkk
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
related: Dealing with splits in my ground plane and Traces over ground plane
$endgroup$
– Nick Alexeev♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
related: Dealing with splits in my ground plane and Traces over ground plane
$endgroup$
– Nick Alexeev♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Why are you putting your SMDs on top in a mixed tech board? Generally mixed technology assemblies have the SMDs on the bottom (copper) side along with most of the traces; this was originally done to allow for single-pass wave soldering of all the things, but also allows the top (component) side to serve as the ground plane in a two-layer board.
$endgroup$
– ThreePhaseEel
42 mins ago
$begingroup$
Why are you putting your SMDs on top in a mixed tech board? Generally mixed technology assemblies have the SMDs on the bottom (copper) side along with most of the traces; this was originally done to allow for single-pass wave soldering of all the things, but also allows the top (component) side to serve as the ground plane in a two-layer board.
$endgroup$
– ThreePhaseEel
42 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You want as solid ground plane as possible, so you should have the ground on bottom and preferably have no other traces there.
For better copper balance you should also have the copper pours on the top layer to fill the empty spaces. If there isn't any better use for it, connecting the pours to the bottom ground plane with vias is a good choice. Though this has little to no effect on EMC performance.
So from your options the number 3 is the best, but if you are considering only EMC performance the option 2 is practically equally good.
Though, with this questions about 2 layer boards, I always like to remind that nowadays 4 layer boards are cheap, and using 2 layers is recommended only if you have to save every last penny, i.e. you have huge volumes. Otherwise the higher design cost of two layers will outnumber the higher production cost of 4 layers
answered 10 hours ago
TemeVTemeV
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A copper pour amongst a bunch of component traces is NOT the same as a ground plane. This is because the whole point of a ground plane is to provide currents the shortest, lowest inductance (smallest loop) possible path. This does not happen in a copper pour riddled with component pads and traces since the ground/return currents must take the long route around all the interruptions.
It's just a copper pour so less etchant is required and enure more symmetrical copper balance on both sides of the board (to prevent warping) that has been connected to a fixed potential so that it doesn't float and cause EMI issues.
With this in mind:
Option 1 is not a ground plane at all.
Option 2 is a ground plane.
Option 3 is not two ground plane connected by vias. It's one copper pour on top which has been connected to a ground plane on the bottom via copper pour.
answered 10 hours ago
DKNguyenDKNguyen
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So are you answering the OP with option 2? Your answer doesn't say...
$endgroup$
– TonyM
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@TonyM My point was to tell the OP the facts and have him draw his own conclusion. From an EMI/EMC point of view the difference should not matter between 2 and 3. But that doesn't mean 2 and 3 are the same in all other matters.
$endgroup$
– DKNguyen
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You want as solid ground plane as possible, so you should have the ground on bottom and preferably have no other traces there.
For better copper balance you should also have the copper pours on the top layer to fill the empty spaces. If there isn't any better use for it, connecting the pours to the bottom ground plane with vias is a good choice. Though this has little to no effect on EMC performance.
So from your options the number 3 is the best, but if you are considering only EMC performance the option 2 is practically equally good.
Though, with this questions about 2 layer boards, I always like to remind that nowadays 4 layer boards are cheap, and using 2 layers is recommended only if you have to save every last penny, i.e. you have huge volumes. Otherwise the higher design cost of two layers will outnumber the higher production cost of 4 layers
answered 10 hours ago
TemeVTemeV
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You want as solid ground plane as possible, so you should have the ground on bottom and preferably have no other traces there.
For better copper balance you should also have the copper pours on the top layer to fill the empty spaces. If there isn't any better use for it, connecting the pours to the bottom ground plane with vias is a good choice. Though this has little to no effect on EMC performance.
So from your options the number 3 is the best, but if you are considering only EMC performance the option 2 is practically equally good.
Though, with this questions about 2 layer boards, I always like to remind that nowadays 4 layer boards are cheap, and using 2 layers is recommended only if you have to save every last penny, i.e. you have huge volumes. Otherwise the higher design cost of two layers will outnumber the higher production cost of 4 layers
answered 10 hours ago
TemeVTemeV
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You want as solid ground plane as possible, so you should have the ground on bottom and preferably have no other traces there.
For better copper balance you should also have the copper pours on the top layer to fill the empty spaces. If there isn't any better use for it, connecting the pours to the bottom ground plane with vias is a good choice. Though this has little to no effect on EMC performance.
So from your options the number 3 is the best, but if you are considering only EMC performance the option 2 is practically equally good.
Though, with this questions about 2 layer boards, I always like to remind that nowadays 4 layer boards are cheap, and using 2 layers is recommended only if you have to save every last penny, i.e. you have huge volumes. Otherwise the higher design cost of two layers will outnumber the higher production cost of 4 layers
answered 10 hours ago
TemeVTemeV
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
$endgroup$
You want as solid ground plane as possible, so you should have the ground on bottom and preferably have no other traces there.
For better copper balance you should also have the copper pours on the top layer to fill the empty spaces. If there isn't any better use for it, connecting the pours to the bottom ground plane with vias is a good choice. Though this has little to no effect on EMC performance.
So from your options the number 3 is the best, but if you are considering only EMC performance the option 2 is practically equally good.
Though, with this questions about 2 layer boards, I always like to remind that nowadays 4 layer boards are cheap, and using 2 layers is recommended only if you have to save every last penny, i.e. you have huge volumes. Otherwise the higher design cost of two layers will outnumber the higher production cost of 4 layers
answered 10 hours ago
TemeVTemeV
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
edited 9 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
TemeVTemeV
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
answered 10 hours ago
TemeVTemeV
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
answered 10 hours ago
TemeVTemeV
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
9731 silver badge9 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A copper pour amongst a bunch of component traces is NOT the same as a ground plane. This is because the whole point of a ground plane is to provide currents the shortest, lowest inductance (smallest loop) possible path. This does not happen in a copper pour riddled with component pads and traces since the ground/return currents must take the long route around all the interruptions.
It's just a copper pour so less etchant is required and enure more symmetrical copper balance on both sides of the board (to prevent warping) that has been connected to a fixed potential so that it doesn't float and cause EMI issues.
With this in mind:
Option 1 is not a ground plane at all.
Option 2 is a ground plane.
Option 3 is not two ground plane connected by vias. It's one copper pour on top which has been connected to a ground plane on the bottom via copper pour.
answered 10 hours ago
DKNguyenDKNguyen
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So are you answering the OP with option 2? Your answer doesn't say...
$endgroup$
– TonyM
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@TonyM My point was to tell the OP the facts and have him draw his own conclusion. From an EMI/EMC point of view the difference should not matter between 2 and 3. But that doesn't mean 2 and 3 are the same in all other matters.
$endgroup$
– DKNguyen
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A copper pour amongst a bunch of component traces is NOT the same as a ground plane. This is because the whole point of a ground plane is to provide currents the shortest, lowest inductance (smallest loop) possible path. This does not happen in a copper pour riddled with component pads and traces since the ground/return currents must take the long route around all the interruptions.
It's just a copper pour so less etchant is required and enure more symmetrical copper balance on both sides of the board (to prevent warping) that has been connected to a fixed potential so that it doesn't float and cause EMI issues.
With this in mind:
Option 1 is not a ground plane at all.
Option 2 is a ground plane.
Option 3 is not two ground plane connected by vias. It's one copper pour on top which has been connected to a ground plane on the bottom via copper pour.
answered 10 hours ago
DKNguyenDKNguyen
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So are you answering the OP with option 2? Your answer doesn't say...
$endgroup$
– TonyM
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@TonyM My point was to tell the OP the facts and have him draw his own conclusion. From an EMI/EMC point of view the difference should not matter between 2 and 3. But that doesn't mean 2 and 3 are the same in all other matters.
$endgroup$
– DKNguyen
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A copper pour amongst a bunch of component traces is NOT the same as a ground plane. This is because the whole point of a ground plane is to provide currents the shortest, lowest inductance (smallest loop) possible path. This does not happen in a copper pour riddled with component pads and traces since the ground/return currents must take the long route around all the interruptions.
It's just a copper pour so less etchant is required and enure more symmetrical copper balance on both sides of the board (to prevent warping) that has been connected to a fixed potential so that it doesn't float and cause EMI issues.
With this in mind:
Option 1 is not a ground plane at all.
Option 2 is a ground plane.
Option 3 is not two ground plane connected by vias. It's one copper pour on top which has been connected to a ground plane on the bottom via copper pour.
answered 10 hours ago
DKNguyenDKNguyen
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
$endgroup$
A copper pour amongst a bunch of component traces is NOT the same as a ground plane. This is because the whole point of a ground plane is to provide currents the shortest, lowest inductance (smallest loop) possible path. This does not happen in a copper pour riddled with component pads and traces since the ground/return currents must take the long route around all the interruptions.
It's just a copper pour so less etchant is required and enure more symmetrical copper balance on both sides of the board (to prevent warping) that has been connected to a fixed potential so that it doesn't float and cause EMI issues.
With this in mind:
Option 1 is not a ground plane at all.
Option 2 is a ground plane.
Option 3 is not two ground plane connected by vias. It's one copper pour on top which has been connected to a ground plane on the bottom via copper pour.
answered 10 hours ago
DKNguyenDKNguyen
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
edited 9 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
DKNguyenDKNguyen
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
answered 10 hours ago
DKNguyenDKNguyen
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
answered 10 hours ago
DKNguyenDKNguyen
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
5,7991 gold badge7 silver badges26 bronze badges
$begingroup$
So are you answering the OP with option 2? Your answer doesn't say...
$endgroup$
– TonyM
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@TonyM My point was to tell the OP the facts and have him draw his own conclusion. From an EMI/EMC point of view the difference should not matter between 2 and 3. But that doesn't mean 2 and 3 are the same in all other matters.
$endgroup$
– DKNguyen
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So are you answering the OP with option 2? Your answer doesn't say...
$endgroup$
– TonyM
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@TonyM My point was to tell the OP the facts and have him draw his own conclusion. From an EMI/EMC point of view the difference should not matter between 2 and 3. But that doesn't mean 2 and 3 are the same in all other matters.
$endgroup$
– DKNguyen
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
So are you answering the OP with option 2? Your answer doesn't say...
$endgroup$
– TonyM
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
So are you answering the OP with option 2? Your answer doesn't say...
$endgroup$
– TonyM
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@TonyM My point was to tell the OP the facts and have him draw his own conclusion. From an EMI/EMC point of view the difference should not matter between 2 and 3. But that doesn't mean 2 and 3 are the same in all other matters.
$endgroup$
– DKNguyen
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@TonyM My point was to tell the OP the facts and have him draw his own conclusion. From an EMI/EMC point of view the difference should not matter between 2 and 3. But that doesn't mean 2 and 3 are the same in all other matters.
$endgroup$
– DKNguyen
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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What makes you think that 1 or 2 is better than 3? Looking at return paths, option 3 is good at least as 1 and 2, since it is both of them...
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– Vladimir Cravero
10 hours ago
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If you turn the board upside down top becomes bottom.... what’s your question?
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– Andy aka
10 hours ago
1
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@Andyaka the point is that one layer is densely populated by components and traces.. (i.e. the top one in this case, but it may be the bottom one as far as the problem is concerned).
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– mickkk
10 hours ago
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related: Dealing with splits in my ground plane and Traces over ground plane
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– Nick Alexeev♦
1 hour ago
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Why are you putting your SMDs on top in a mixed tech board? Generally mixed technology assemblies have the SMDs on the bottom (copper) side along with most of the traces; this was originally done to allow for single-pass wave soldering of all the things, but also allows the top (component) side to serve as the ground plane in a two-layer board.
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– ThreePhaseEel
42 mins ago