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Should I be on the paper from another PhD student that I constantly went on his meetings?


review paper and authorship of ex supervisorShould I require a student to acknowledge or change a color scheme from a common paper?What's the best way to inform a supervisor of collaboration on papers with a different professor?Resolving authorship when PhD student does most of the work on paper, but originally agreed to support another PhD student (first author)?Should I inform my old supervisor of new insights that lead me to think his hypothesis must be adapted?Why would my former colleagues acknowledge me for a nonexistent contribution?I (independently) solved a fellow student's research problem. I want to publish it. What should I do?Should I inform the journal that I'm the actual first author?Coauthorship across communities with differing standardsShould my supervisor acknowledge me in his recent paper?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








8















My PhD supervisor used to invite me to meetings with his other PhD student. Since I have more knowledge than my supervisor in some topic, I was constantly making suggestions how the PhD student could improve his methodology. I went in total to 5 meetings of 3 to 4 hours each. I could be using this time to do my own research.



When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.



So I asked my supervisor to be on the paper and I even said I could help writing it. My supervisor said "Don't worry about his paper, you have your own things to do, and he is not going to submit this work anytime soon".



One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.



I didn't actively did the research or helped writing the paper. But I felt I was supervising the student since I have more experience on the topic than him and my supervisor. And many academics are actually having their names on papers by just giving suggestions.



What should I do? I am planing in taking it to the head of department.










share|improve this question







New contributor



user1998012 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • I don't think this head can or will do much

    – Matthias
    8 hours ago











  • May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.

    – Pedro H. N. Vieira
    5 hours ago











  • I work with artificial intelligence, I actually see that most of papers in my field contains several authors, that is why I was expected to be included.

    – user1998012
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.

    – lighthouse keeper
    2 hours ago












  • Your body says "major conference," but the tags say "paper submission." Those would be of different levels of concern to me. Which is it?

    – Azor Ahai
    2 hours ago

















8















My PhD supervisor used to invite me to meetings with his other PhD student. Since I have more knowledge than my supervisor in some topic, I was constantly making suggestions how the PhD student could improve his methodology. I went in total to 5 meetings of 3 to 4 hours each. I could be using this time to do my own research.



When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.



So I asked my supervisor to be on the paper and I even said I could help writing it. My supervisor said "Don't worry about his paper, you have your own things to do, and he is not going to submit this work anytime soon".



One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.



I didn't actively did the research or helped writing the paper. But I felt I was supervising the student since I have more experience on the topic than him and my supervisor. And many academics are actually having their names on papers by just giving suggestions.



What should I do? I am planing in taking it to the head of department.










share|improve this question







New contributor



user1998012 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • I don't think this head can or will do much

    – Matthias
    8 hours ago











  • May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.

    – Pedro H. N. Vieira
    5 hours ago











  • I work with artificial intelligence, I actually see that most of papers in my field contains several authors, that is why I was expected to be included.

    – user1998012
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.

    – lighthouse keeper
    2 hours ago












  • Your body says "major conference," but the tags say "paper submission." Those would be of different levels of concern to me. Which is it?

    – Azor Ahai
    2 hours ago













8












8








8


1






My PhD supervisor used to invite me to meetings with his other PhD student. Since I have more knowledge than my supervisor in some topic, I was constantly making suggestions how the PhD student could improve his methodology. I went in total to 5 meetings of 3 to 4 hours each. I could be using this time to do my own research.



When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.



So I asked my supervisor to be on the paper and I even said I could help writing it. My supervisor said "Don't worry about his paper, you have your own things to do, and he is not going to submit this work anytime soon".



One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.



I didn't actively did the research or helped writing the paper. But I felt I was supervising the student since I have more experience on the topic than him and my supervisor. And many academics are actually having their names on papers by just giving suggestions.



What should I do? I am planing in taking it to the head of department.










share|improve this question







New contributor



user1998012 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











My PhD supervisor used to invite me to meetings with his other PhD student. Since I have more knowledge than my supervisor in some topic, I was constantly making suggestions how the PhD student could improve his methodology. I went in total to 5 meetings of 3 to 4 hours each. I could be using this time to do my own research.



When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.



So I asked my supervisor to be on the paper and I even said I could help writing it. My supervisor said "Don't worry about his paper, you have your own things to do, and he is not going to submit this work anytime soon".



One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.



I didn't actively did the research or helped writing the paper. But I felt I was supervising the student since I have more experience on the topic than him and my supervisor. And many academics are actually having their names on papers by just giving suggestions.



What should I do? I am planing in taking it to the head of department.







publications paper-submission authorship acknowledgement author-order






share|improve this question







New contributor



user1998012 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question







New contributor



user1998012 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question






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asked 9 hours ago









user1998012user1998012

472 bronze badges




472 bronze badges




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Check out our Code of Conduct.

















  • I don't think this head can or will do much

    – Matthias
    8 hours ago











  • May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.

    – Pedro H. N. Vieira
    5 hours ago











  • I work with artificial intelligence, I actually see that most of papers in my field contains several authors, that is why I was expected to be included.

    – user1998012
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.

    – lighthouse keeper
    2 hours ago












  • Your body says "major conference," but the tags say "paper submission." Those would be of different levels of concern to me. Which is it?

    – Azor Ahai
    2 hours ago

















  • I don't think this head can or will do much

    – Matthias
    8 hours ago











  • May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.

    – Pedro H. N. Vieira
    5 hours ago











  • I work with artificial intelligence, I actually see that most of papers in my field contains several authors, that is why I was expected to be included.

    – user1998012
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.

    – lighthouse keeper
    2 hours ago












  • Your body says "major conference," but the tags say "paper submission." Those would be of different levels of concern to me. Which is it?

    – Azor Ahai
    2 hours ago
















I don't think this head can or will do much

– Matthias
8 hours ago





I don't think this head can or will do much

– Matthias
8 hours ago













May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.

– Pedro H. N. Vieira
5 hours ago





May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.

– Pedro H. N. Vieira
5 hours ago













I work with artificial intelligence, I actually see that most of papers in my field contains several authors, that is why I was expected to be included.

– user1998012
4 hours ago





I work with artificial intelligence, I actually see that most of papers in my field contains several authors, that is why I was expected to be included.

– user1998012
4 hours ago




1




1





I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.

– lighthouse keeper
2 hours ago






I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.

– lighthouse keeper
2 hours ago














Your body says "major conference," but the tags say "paper submission." Those would be of different levels of concern to me. Which is it?

– Azor Ahai
2 hours ago





Your body says "major conference," but the tags say "paper submission." Those would be of different levels of concern to me. Which is it?

– Azor Ahai
2 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















19
















Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.



You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.



Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.



But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.



Pay it forward.






share|improve this answer




















  • 2





    I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.

    – user1998012
    7 hours ago






  • 3





    But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago











  • I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.

    – Captain Emacs
    1 hour ago











  • @buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.

    – user32882
    4 mins ago



















13

















I am planing in taking it to the head of department.




Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.



How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!



In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!






share|improve this answer

























  • Yes, bad, bad, idea

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago






  • 3





    +1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.

    – Jon Custer
    6 hours ago


















7

















When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.




As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.



Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.




One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.




You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.



Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.






share|improve this answer

























  • So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.

    – user1998012
    7 hours ago






  • 4





    In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago











  • Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.

    – FoldedChromatin
    7 hours ago


















5
















In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.






share|improve this answer




















  • 3





    The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.

    – Noah Snyder
    6 hours ago






  • 1





    But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.

    – Buffy
    5 hours ago


















1
















The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.



Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.






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    5 Answers
    5






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    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    19
















    Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.



    You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.



    Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.



    But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.



    Pay it forward.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 2





      I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.

      – user1998012
      7 hours ago






    • 3





      But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago











    • I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.

      – Captain Emacs
      1 hour ago











    • @buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.

      – user32882
      4 mins ago
















    19
















    Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.



    You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.



    Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.



    But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.



    Pay it forward.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 2





      I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.

      – user1998012
      7 hours ago






    • 3





      But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago











    • I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.

      – Captain Emacs
      1 hour ago











    • @buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.

      – user32882
      4 mins ago














    19














    19










    19









    Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.



    You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.



    Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.



    But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.



    Pay it forward.






    share|improve this answer













    Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.



    You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.



    Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.



    But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.



    Pay it forward.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 8 hours ago









    BuffyBuffy

    85k22 gold badges258 silver badges372 bronze badges




    85k22 gold badges258 silver badges372 bronze badges










    • 2





      I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.

      – user1998012
      7 hours ago






    • 3





      But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago











    • I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.

      – Captain Emacs
      1 hour ago











    • @buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.

      – user32882
      4 mins ago













    • 2





      I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.

      – user1998012
      7 hours ago






    • 3





      But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago











    • I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.

      – Captain Emacs
      1 hour ago











    • @buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.

      – user32882
      4 mins ago








    2




    2





    I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.

    – user1998012
    7 hours ago





    I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.

    – user1998012
    7 hours ago




    3




    3





    But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago





    But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago













    I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.

    – Captain Emacs
    1 hour ago





    I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.

    – Captain Emacs
    1 hour ago













    @buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.

    – user32882
    4 mins ago






    @buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.

    – user32882
    4 mins ago














    13

















    I am planing in taking it to the head of department.




    Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.



    How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!



    In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!






    share|improve this answer

























    • Yes, bad, bad, idea

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago






    • 3





      +1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.

      – Jon Custer
      6 hours ago















    13

















    I am planing in taking it to the head of department.




    Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.



    How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!



    In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!






    share|improve this answer

























    • Yes, bad, bad, idea

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago






    • 3





      +1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.

      – Jon Custer
      6 hours ago













    13














    13










    13










    I am planing in taking it to the head of department.




    Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.



    How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!



    In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!






    share|improve this answer














    I am planing in taking it to the head of department.




    Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.



    How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!



    In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 7 hours ago









    SparkSpark

    11.9k4 gold badges25 silver badges47 bronze badges




    11.9k4 gold badges25 silver badges47 bronze badges















    • Yes, bad, bad, idea

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago






    • 3





      +1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.

      – Jon Custer
      6 hours ago

















    • Yes, bad, bad, idea

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago






    • 3





      +1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.

      – Jon Custer
      6 hours ago
















    Yes, bad, bad, idea

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago





    Yes, bad, bad, idea

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago




    3




    3





    +1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.

    – Jon Custer
    6 hours ago





    +1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.

    – Jon Custer
    6 hours ago











    7

















    When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.




    As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.



    Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.




    One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.




    You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.



    Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.






    share|improve this answer

























    • So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.

      – user1998012
      7 hours ago






    • 4





      In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago











    • Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.

      – FoldedChromatin
      7 hours ago















    7

















    When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.




    As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.



    Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.




    One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.




    You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.



    Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.






    share|improve this answer

























    • So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.

      – user1998012
      7 hours ago






    • 4





      In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago











    • Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.

      – FoldedChromatin
      7 hours ago













    7














    7










    7










    When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.




    As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.



    Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.




    One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.




    You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.



    Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.






    share|improve this answer














    When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.




    As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.



    Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.




    One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.




    You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.



    Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 8 hours ago









    FoldedChromatinFoldedChromatin

    3821 silver badge8 bronze badges




    3821 silver badge8 bronze badges















    • So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.

      – user1998012
      7 hours ago






    • 4





      In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago











    • Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.

      – FoldedChromatin
      7 hours ago

















    • So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.

      – user1998012
      7 hours ago






    • 4





      In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.

      – Buffy
      7 hours ago











    • Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.

      – FoldedChromatin
      7 hours ago
















    So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.

    – user1998012
    7 hours ago





    So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.

    – user1998012
    7 hours ago




    4




    4





    In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago





    In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.

    – Buffy
    7 hours ago













    Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.

    – FoldedChromatin
    7 hours ago





    Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.

    – FoldedChromatin
    7 hours ago











    5
















    In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 3





      The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.

      – Noah Snyder
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.

      – Buffy
      5 hours ago















    5
















    In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.






    share|improve this answer




















    • 3





      The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.

      – Noah Snyder
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.

      – Buffy
      5 hours ago













    5














    5










    5









    In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.






    share|improve this answer













    In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 6 hours ago









    Noah SnyderNoah Snyder

    18.6k2 gold badges45 silver badges84 bronze badges




    18.6k2 gold badges45 silver badges84 bronze badges










    • 3





      The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.

      – Noah Snyder
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.

      – Buffy
      5 hours ago












    • 3





      The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.

      – Noah Snyder
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.

      – Buffy
      5 hours ago







    3




    3





    The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.

    – Noah Snyder
    6 hours ago





    The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.

    – Noah Snyder
    6 hours ago




    1




    1





    But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.

    – Buffy
    5 hours ago





    But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.

    – Buffy
    5 hours ago











    1
















    The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.



    Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.






    share|improve this answer





























      1
















      The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.



      Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.






      share|improve this answer



























        1














        1










        1









        The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.



        Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.






        share|improve this answer













        The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.



        Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 1 hour ago









        PamPam

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