Does the “divide by 4 rule” give the upper bound marginal effect?Assessing logistic regression modelsLogistic regression and marginal effectInference on fixed effects in a mixed effects modelHow to estimate ICC (degree of clustering) in hierarchical logistic regression?Can I do a t-test to compare t-statistics?Why does hypothesis testing using coefficient and odds ratio give different conclusion?Hypothesis testing for marginal effectRule of thumb for log odds ratios effect size interpretationlogit - interpreting coefficients as probabilitiesMLE for logistic regression, formal derivation
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Does the “divide by 4 rule” give the upper bound marginal effect?
Assessing logistic regression modelsLogistic regression and marginal effectInference on fixed effects in a mixed effects modelHow to estimate ICC (degree of clustering) in hierarchical logistic regression?Can I do a t-test to compare t-statistics?Why does hypothesis testing using coefficient and odds ratio give different conclusion?Hypothesis testing for marginal effectRule of thumb for log odds ratios effect size interpretationlogit - interpreting coefficients as probabilitiesMLE for logistic regression, formal derivation
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
In the logisitic regression chapter of "Data Analysis Using Regression and
Multilevel/Hierarchical Models" by Gelman and Hill, The "Divide by 4" rule is presented to approximate average marginal effects.
Essentially, dividing the estimated log-odds ratio gives the maximum slope (or the maximum change in probabilities) of the logistic function.
Since the text above states that the "divide by 4 rule" gives the maximum change in $P(y=1)$ with a unit change in x, why is the estimated 8% less than the 13% calculated from actually taking the derivative of the logistic function in the example given?
Does the "divide by 4 rule" actually give the upper bound marginal effect?
Other "divide by 4" resources:
- Using the "Divide by 4 Rule" to Interpret Logistic Regression Coefficients
- Divide by 4 Rule for Marginal Effects - Econometric Sense
- http://vulstats.ucsd.edu/pdf/Gelman.ch-05.logistic-regression.pdf
logistic regression-coefficients odds-ratio logistic-curve model-interpretation
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
In the logisitic regression chapter of "Data Analysis Using Regression and
Multilevel/Hierarchical Models" by Gelman and Hill, The "Divide by 4" rule is presented to approximate average marginal effects.
Essentially, dividing the estimated log-odds ratio gives the maximum slope (or the maximum change in probabilities) of the logistic function.
Since the text above states that the "divide by 4 rule" gives the maximum change in $P(y=1)$ with a unit change in x, why is the estimated 8% less than the 13% calculated from actually taking the derivative of the logistic function in the example given?
Does the "divide by 4 rule" actually give the upper bound marginal effect?
Other "divide by 4" resources:
- Using the "Divide by 4 Rule" to Interpret Logistic Regression Coefficients
- Divide by 4 Rule for Marginal Effects - Econometric Sense
- http://vulstats.ucsd.edu/pdf/Gelman.ch-05.logistic-regression.pdf
logistic regression-coefficients odds-ratio logistic-curve model-interpretation
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Your question seems to come down to asking why the maximum slope of the logistic function occurs at $x=0.$ Is that really what you are after?
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I think they understand that part... I think they are asking why the estimated maximum marginal effect is beta/4 = 0.08 yet the text suggests that the actual derivative = 0.13.
$endgroup$
– Emma Jean
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I guess I'm trying to reconcile the explanation with the example in the text. It looks like the number given by the rule of 4 (8%) is not the maximum because it is smaller than the 13% calculated by taking the derivative.
$endgroup$
– Great38
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't that the very meaning of maximum: everything else is smaller??
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Is it a joke that approximation (0.08) turns out to be close to 0.13? Or I misunderstood something?
$endgroup$
– user158565
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
In the logisitic regression chapter of "Data Analysis Using Regression and
Multilevel/Hierarchical Models" by Gelman and Hill, The "Divide by 4" rule is presented to approximate average marginal effects.
Essentially, dividing the estimated log-odds ratio gives the maximum slope (or the maximum change in probabilities) of the logistic function.
Since the text above states that the "divide by 4 rule" gives the maximum change in $P(y=1)$ with a unit change in x, why is the estimated 8% less than the 13% calculated from actually taking the derivative of the logistic function in the example given?
Does the "divide by 4 rule" actually give the upper bound marginal effect?
Other "divide by 4" resources:
- Using the "Divide by 4 Rule" to Interpret Logistic Regression Coefficients
- Divide by 4 Rule for Marginal Effects - Econometric Sense
- http://vulstats.ucsd.edu/pdf/Gelman.ch-05.logistic-regression.pdf
logistic regression-coefficients odds-ratio logistic-curve model-interpretation
$endgroup$
In the logisitic regression chapter of "Data Analysis Using Regression and
Multilevel/Hierarchical Models" by Gelman and Hill, The "Divide by 4" rule is presented to approximate average marginal effects.
Essentially, dividing the estimated log-odds ratio gives the maximum slope (or the maximum change in probabilities) of the logistic function.
Since the text above states that the "divide by 4 rule" gives the maximum change in $P(y=1)$ with a unit change in x, why is the estimated 8% less than the 13% calculated from actually taking the derivative of the logistic function in the example given?
Does the "divide by 4 rule" actually give the upper bound marginal effect?
Other "divide by 4" resources:
- Using the "Divide by 4 Rule" to Interpret Logistic Regression Coefficients
- Divide by 4 Rule for Marginal Effects - Econometric Sense
- http://vulstats.ucsd.edu/pdf/Gelman.ch-05.logistic-regression.pdf
logistic regression-coefficients odds-ratio logistic-curve model-interpretation
logistic regression-coefficients odds-ratio logistic-curve model-interpretation
asked 9 hours ago
Great38Great38
1,0385 silver badges16 bronze badges
1,0385 silver badges16 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
Your question seems to come down to asking why the maximum slope of the logistic function occurs at $x=0.$ Is that really what you are after?
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I think they understand that part... I think they are asking why the estimated maximum marginal effect is beta/4 = 0.08 yet the text suggests that the actual derivative = 0.13.
$endgroup$
– Emma Jean
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I guess I'm trying to reconcile the explanation with the example in the text. It looks like the number given by the rule of 4 (8%) is not the maximum because it is smaller than the 13% calculated by taking the derivative.
$endgroup$
– Great38
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't that the very meaning of maximum: everything else is smaller??
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Is it a joke that approximation (0.08) turns out to be close to 0.13? Or I misunderstood something?
$endgroup$
– user158565
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
1
$begingroup$
Your question seems to come down to asking why the maximum slope of the logistic function occurs at $x=0.$ Is that really what you are after?
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I think they understand that part... I think they are asking why the estimated maximum marginal effect is beta/4 = 0.08 yet the text suggests that the actual derivative = 0.13.
$endgroup$
– Emma Jean
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I guess I'm trying to reconcile the explanation with the example in the text. It looks like the number given by the rule of 4 (8%) is not the maximum because it is smaller than the 13% calculated by taking the derivative.
$endgroup$
– Great38
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't that the very meaning of maximum: everything else is smaller??
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Is it a joke that approximation (0.08) turns out to be close to 0.13? Or I misunderstood something?
$endgroup$
– user158565
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Your question seems to come down to asking why the maximum slope of the logistic function occurs at $x=0.$ Is that really what you are after?
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your question seems to come down to asking why the maximum slope of the logistic function occurs at $x=0.$ Is that really what you are after?
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I think they understand that part... I think they are asking why the estimated maximum marginal effect is beta/4 = 0.08 yet the text suggests that the actual derivative = 0.13.
$endgroup$
– Emma Jean
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I think they understand that part... I think they are asking why the estimated maximum marginal effect is beta/4 = 0.08 yet the text suggests that the actual derivative = 0.13.
$endgroup$
– Emma Jean
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I guess I'm trying to reconcile the explanation with the example in the text. It looks like the number given by the rule of 4 (8%) is not the maximum because it is smaller than the 13% calculated by taking the derivative.
$endgroup$
– Great38
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I guess I'm trying to reconcile the explanation with the example in the text. It looks like the number given by the rule of 4 (8%) is not the maximum because it is smaller than the 13% calculated by taking the derivative.
$endgroup$
– Great38
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't that the very meaning of maximum: everything else is smaller??
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't that the very meaning of maximum: everything else is smaller??
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Is it a joke that approximation (0.08) turns out to be close to 0.13? Or I misunderstood something?
$endgroup$
– user158565
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Is it a joke that approximation (0.08) turns out to be close to 0.13? Or I misunderstood something?
$endgroup$
– user158565
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I think it's a typo.
The derivative of the logistic curve with respect to $x$ is:
$$
fracbetamathrme^alpha + beta xleft(1 + mathrme^alpha + beta xright)^2
$$
So for their example where $alpha = -1.40, beta = 0.33$ it is:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xleft(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xright)^2
$$
Evaluated at the mean $barx=3.1$ gives:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1left(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33cdot 3.1right)^2 = 0.0796367
$$
This result is very close to the maximum slope of $0.33/4 = 0.0825$ which is attained at $x=-fracalphabeta=4.24$, supporting their claim.
On page 82, they write
But $0.33mathrme^-0.39/left(1+mathrme^-0.39right)^2neq 0.13$. Instead, it's around $0.08$, as shown above.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For a continuous variable $x$, the marginal effect of $x$ in a logit model is
$$Lambda(alpha + beta x)cdot left[1-Lambda(alpha + beta x)right]cdotbeta = p cdot (1 - p) cdot beta,$$ where the inverse logit function is
$$Lambda(z)=fracexpz1+expz.$$
Here $p$ is a probability, so the factor $pcdot (1-p)$ is maximized when $p=0.5$ at $0.25$, which is where the $frac14$ comes from. Multiplying by the coefficient gives you the upper bound on the marginal effect. Here it is
$$0.25cdot0.33 =0.0825.$$
Calculating the marginal effect at the mean income yields,
$$mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1)cdot left(1-mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot3.1)right)cdot 0.33 = 0.07963666$$
These are pretty close, with the approximate maximum marginal effect bounding the marginal effect at the mean.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I think it's a typo.
The derivative of the logistic curve with respect to $x$ is:
$$
fracbetamathrme^alpha + beta xleft(1 + mathrme^alpha + beta xright)^2
$$
So for their example where $alpha = -1.40, beta = 0.33$ it is:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xleft(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xright)^2
$$
Evaluated at the mean $barx=3.1$ gives:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1left(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33cdot 3.1right)^2 = 0.0796367
$$
This result is very close to the maximum slope of $0.33/4 = 0.0825$ which is attained at $x=-fracalphabeta=4.24$, supporting their claim.
On page 82, they write
But $0.33mathrme^-0.39/left(1+mathrme^-0.39right)^2neq 0.13$. Instead, it's around $0.08$, as shown above.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think it's a typo.
The derivative of the logistic curve with respect to $x$ is:
$$
fracbetamathrme^alpha + beta xleft(1 + mathrme^alpha + beta xright)^2
$$
So for their example where $alpha = -1.40, beta = 0.33$ it is:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xleft(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xright)^2
$$
Evaluated at the mean $barx=3.1$ gives:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1left(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33cdot 3.1right)^2 = 0.0796367
$$
This result is very close to the maximum slope of $0.33/4 = 0.0825$ which is attained at $x=-fracalphabeta=4.24$, supporting their claim.
On page 82, they write
But $0.33mathrme^-0.39/left(1+mathrme^-0.39right)^2neq 0.13$. Instead, it's around $0.08$, as shown above.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think it's a typo.
The derivative of the logistic curve with respect to $x$ is:
$$
fracbetamathrme^alpha + beta xleft(1 + mathrme^alpha + beta xright)^2
$$
So for their example where $alpha = -1.40, beta = 0.33$ it is:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xleft(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xright)^2
$$
Evaluated at the mean $barx=3.1$ gives:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1left(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33cdot 3.1right)^2 = 0.0796367
$$
This result is very close to the maximum slope of $0.33/4 = 0.0825$ which is attained at $x=-fracalphabeta=4.24$, supporting their claim.
On page 82, they write
But $0.33mathrme^-0.39/left(1+mathrme^-0.39right)^2neq 0.13$. Instead, it's around $0.08$, as shown above.
$endgroup$
I think it's a typo.
The derivative of the logistic curve with respect to $x$ is:
$$
fracbetamathrme^alpha + beta xleft(1 + mathrme^alpha + beta xright)^2
$$
So for their example where $alpha = -1.40, beta = 0.33$ it is:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xleft(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 xright)^2
$$
Evaluated at the mean $barx=3.1$ gives:
$$
frac0.33mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1left(1 + mathrme^-1.40 + 0.33cdot 3.1right)^2 = 0.0796367
$$
This result is very close to the maximum slope of $0.33/4 = 0.0825$ which is attained at $x=-fracalphabeta=4.24$, supporting their claim.
On page 82, they write
But $0.33mathrme^-0.39/left(1+mathrme^-0.39right)^2neq 0.13$. Instead, it's around $0.08$, as shown above.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
COOLSerdashCOOLSerdash
17.2k7 gold badges53 silver badges100 bronze badges
17.2k7 gold badges53 silver badges100 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For a continuous variable $x$, the marginal effect of $x$ in a logit model is
$$Lambda(alpha + beta x)cdot left[1-Lambda(alpha + beta x)right]cdotbeta = p cdot (1 - p) cdot beta,$$ where the inverse logit function is
$$Lambda(z)=fracexpz1+expz.$$
Here $p$ is a probability, so the factor $pcdot (1-p)$ is maximized when $p=0.5$ at $0.25$, which is where the $frac14$ comes from. Multiplying by the coefficient gives you the upper bound on the marginal effect. Here it is
$$0.25cdot0.33 =0.0825.$$
Calculating the marginal effect at the mean income yields,
$$mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1)cdot left(1-mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot3.1)right)cdot 0.33 = 0.07963666$$
These are pretty close, with the approximate maximum marginal effect bounding the marginal effect at the mean.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For a continuous variable $x$, the marginal effect of $x$ in a logit model is
$$Lambda(alpha + beta x)cdot left[1-Lambda(alpha + beta x)right]cdotbeta = p cdot (1 - p) cdot beta,$$ where the inverse logit function is
$$Lambda(z)=fracexpz1+expz.$$
Here $p$ is a probability, so the factor $pcdot (1-p)$ is maximized when $p=0.5$ at $0.25$, which is where the $frac14$ comes from. Multiplying by the coefficient gives you the upper bound on the marginal effect. Here it is
$$0.25cdot0.33 =0.0825.$$
Calculating the marginal effect at the mean income yields,
$$mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1)cdot left(1-mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot3.1)right)cdot 0.33 = 0.07963666$$
These are pretty close, with the approximate maximum marginal effect bounding the marginal effect at the mean.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For a continuous variable $x$, the marginal effect of $x$ in a logit model is
$$Lambda(alpha + beta x)cdot left[1-Lambda(alpha + beta x)right]cdotbeta = p cdot (1 - p) cdot beta,$$ where the inverse logit function is
$$Lambda(z)=fracexpz1+expz.$$
Here $p$ is a probability, so the factor $pcdot (1-p)$ is maximized when $p=0.5$ at $0.25$, which is where the $frac14$ comes from. Multiplying by the coefficient gives you the upper bound on the marginal effect. Here it is
$$0.25cdot0.33 =0.0825.$$
Calculating the marginal effect at the mean income yields,
$$mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1)cdot left(1-mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot3.1)right)cdot 0.33 = 0.07963666$$
These are pretty close, with the approximate maximum marginal effect bounding the marginal effect at the mean.
$endgroup$
For a continuous variable $x$, the marginal effect of $x$ in a logit model is
$$Lambda(alpha + beta x)cdot left[1-Lambda(alpha + beta x)right]cdotbeta = p cdot (1 - p) cdot beta,$$ where the inverse logit function is
$$Lambda(z)=fracexpz1+expz.$$
Here $p$ is a probability, so the factor $pcdot (1-p)$ is maximized when $p=0.5$ at $0.25$, which is where the $frac14$ comes from. Multiplying by the coefficient gives you the upper bound on the marginal effect. Here it is
$$0.25cdot0.33 =0.0825.$$
Calculating the marginal effect at the mean income yields,
$$mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot 3.1)cdot left(1-mathbfinvlogit(-1.40 + 0.33 cdot3.1)right)cdot 0.33 = 0.07963666$$
These are pretty close, with the approximate maximum marginal effect bounding the marginal effect at the mean.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
Dimitriy V. MasterovDimitriy V. Masterov
21.6k1 gold badge42 silver badges98 bronze badges
21.6k1 gold badge42 silver badges98 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
$begingroup$
Your question seems to come down to asking why the maximum slope of the logistic function occurs at $x=0.$ Is that really what you are after?
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I think they understand that part... I think they are asking why the estimated maximum marginal effect is beta/4 = 0.08 yet the text suggests that the actual derivative = 0.13.
$endgroup$
– Emma Jean
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@whuber I guess I'm trying to reconcile the explanation with the example in the text. It looks like the number given by the rule of 4 (8%) is not the maximum because it is smaller than the 13% calculated by taking the derivative.
$endgroup$
– Great38
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't that the very meaning of maximum: everything else is smaller??
$endgroup$
– whuber♦
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Is it a joke that approximation (0.08) turns out to be close to 0.13? Or I misunderstood something?
$endgroup$
– user158565
8 hours ago