Turning an Abelian Group into a Vector SpaceAre these vector spaces?Proving a subspace of $mathbbR^2$ is still a vector space with redefined addition / scalar multiplication operations?Define two differents vector space structures over a field on an abelian groupnumber of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian groupgroups products vs vector space productsCan we define a binary operation on $mathbb Z$ to make it a vector space over $mathbb Q$?Vector spaces: Is (the) scalar multiplication unique?Is a vector space a subset of an abelian group?An abelian group as an $mathbb F_2$-vector spaceCan an abelian group be a real vector space in more than one way?
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Turning an Abelian Group into a Vector Space
Are these vector spaces?Proving a subspace of $mathbbR^2$ is still a vector space with redefined addition / scalar multiplication operations?Define two differents vector space structures over a field on an abelian groupnumber of differents vector space structures over the same field $mathbbF$ on an abelian groupgroups products vs vector space productsCan we define a binary operation on $mathbb Z$ to make it a vector space over $mathbb Q$?Vector spaces: Is (the) scalar multiplication unique?Is a vector space a subset of an abelian group?An abelian group as an $mathbb F_2$-vector spaceCan an abelian group be a real vector space in more than one way?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
This question is inspired by the question Are these vector spaces? but is free-standing.
Suppose $mathbbF$ is a field, and that $X$ is the multiplicative group of $mathbbF$.
Let us write this abelian group $X$ additively. To be precise the set is $mathbbFsetminus0$, the zero element is $hat0:=1$, the addition operation is $x hat+y:=xy$, and the negative operation is $widehat-x:=x^-1$.
Let $V$ be the abelian group of $n$-tuples $X^n$ with the usual co-ordinatewise operations.
Question : Can we define an $mathbbF$-scalar multiplication on $V$ so that $V$ becomes an $mathbbF$-vector space?
By looking at $-1$ in $mathbbF$, which satisfies $(-1)hat+(-1)=(-1)^2=1=hat0$ we see that if there is to be any chance of turning $V$ into a vector space then the field $mathbbF$ must have characteristic $2$. More than that, a similar argument on $(2^k -1)$-th roots of unity will show that $mathbbF$ has no finite subfields $mathbbF_2^k$ except $mathbbF_2$. Beyond that I cannot go.
linear-algebra abstract-algebra vector-spaces commutative-algebra modules
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This question is inspired by the question Are these vector spaces? but is free-standing.
Suppose $mathbbF$ is a field, and that $X$ is the multiplicative group of $mathbbF$.
Let us write this abelian group $X$ additively. To be precise the set is $mathbbFsetminus0$, the zero element is $hat0:=1$, the addition operation is $x hat+y:=xy$, and the negative operation is $widehat-x:=x^-1$.
Let $V$ be the abelian group of $n$-tuples $X^n$ with the usual co-ordinatewise operations.
Question : Can we define an $mathbbF$-scalar multiplication on $V$ so that $V$ becomes an $mathbbF$-vector space?
By looking at $-1$ in $mathbbF$, which satisfies $(-1)hat+(-1)=(-1)^2=1=hat0$ we see that if there is to be any chance of turning $V$ into a vector space then the field $mathbbF$ must have characteristic $2$. More than that, a similar argument on $(2^k -1)$-th roots of unity will show that $mathbbF$ has no finite subfields $mathbbF_2^k$ except $mathbbF_2$. Beyond that I cannot go.
linear-algebra abstract-algebra vector-spaces commutative-algebra modules
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This question is inspired by the question Are these vector spaces? but is free-standing.
Suppose $mathbbF$ is a field, and that $X$ is the multiplicative group of $mathbbF$.
Let us write this abelian group $X$ additively. To be precise the set is $mathbbFsetminus0$, the zero element is $hat0:=1$, the addition operation is $x hat+y:=xy$, and the negative operation is $widehat-x:=x^-1$.
Let $V$ be the abelian group of $n$-tuples $X^n$ with the usual co-ordinatewise operations.
Question : Can we define an $mathbbF$-scalar multiplication on $V$ so that $V$ becomes an $mathbbF$-vector space?
By looking at $-1$ in $mathbbF$, which satisfies $(-1)hat+(-1)=(-1)^2=1=hat0$ we see that if there is to be any chance of turning $V$ into a vector space then the field $mathbbF$ must have characteristic $2$. More than that, a similar argument on $(2^k -1)$-th roots of unity will show that $mathbbF$ has no finite subfields $mathbbF_2^k$ except $mathbbF_2$. Beyond that I cannot go.
linear-algebra abstract-algebra vector-spaces commutative-algebra modules
$endgroup$
This question is inspired by the question Are these vector spaces? but is free-standing.
Suppose $mathbbF$ is a field, and that $X$ is the multiplicative group of $mathbbF$.
Let us write this abelian group $X$ additively. To be precise the set is $mathbbFsetminus0$, the zero element is $hat0:=1$, the addition operation is $x hat+y:=xy$, and the negative operation is $widehat-x:=x^-1$.
Let $V$ be the abelian group of $n$-tuples $X^n$ with the usual co-ordinatewise operations.
Question : Can we define an $mathbbF$-scalar multiplication on $V$ so that $V$ becomes an $mathbbF$-vector space?
By looking at $-1$ in $mathbbF$, which satisfies $(-1)hat+(-1)=(-1)^2=1=hat0$ we see that if there is to be any chance of turning $V$ into a vector space then the field $mathbbF$ must have characteristic $2$. More than that, a similar argument on $(2^k -1)$-th roots of unity will show that $mathbbF$ has no finite subfields $mathbbF_2^k$ except $mathbbF_2$. Beyond that I cannot go.
linear-algebra abstract-algebra vector-spaces commutative-algebra modules
linear-algebra abstract-algebra vector-spaces commutative-algebra modules
edited 7 hours ago
Omnomnomnom
133k7 gold badges98 silver badges198 bronze badges
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asked 8 hours ago
ancientmathematicianancientmathematician
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5,3971 gold badge6 silver badges17 bronze badges
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add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The answer is no except for the trivial case $mathbb F =mathbb F_2$ (in which $V=0$)
Indeed, assume $mathbb F$ is such a field and take $xin mathbb F^*$. In the structure of $V$, we have $2cdot x = 0$, which translates to $x^2= 1$ in $mathbb F$ (for each coordinate).
This implies that any element of $mathbb F$ is a root of $X^2-1$ which has at most to roots : $|mathbb F| leq 2$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Fantastic! Any clue what $V otimes Bbb F_2^k$ looks like? Is it ever non-zero?
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@omnomnomnom : yes, in fact if $mathbb F$ is e.g. $mathbb F_2 (X) $ then its multiplicative group is free, so $Votimes mathbb F$ is a direct sum of copies of $mathbb F$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Omnomnomnom But for $mathbbF_2^k$ and $V=mathbbF_2^ksetminus0$ under multiplication, it is zero: every element of $V$ satisfies $v^2^k=v$, hence the generators are all zero: $votimesalpha = v^2^kotimesalpha = votimes(2^kalpha) = votimes 0 = mathbf0$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great, thanks to both of you
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@jyrkilahtonen : I think that's the case : the notation $mathbb F$ is used for both
$endgroup$
– Max
6 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but hopefully a useful observation. Your question (if I have understood it correctly) can be reframed as follows.
We are given an abelian group $X = Bbb Fsetminus 0$, which we present as a $Bbb Z$-module where $x+y := xy$ and $nx := x^n$. Is it possible to take $V = X^n$ and extend multiplication by $Bbb Z$ into multiplication by $Bbb F$ in such a way that $V$ becomes a $Bbb F$-module (i.e. a vector space over $Bbb F$)?
As Max's comment below observes: any $Bbb F$-space structure $V$ exists corresponds to an $Bbb F$-linear map $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F to V$. Notably, $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F$ is the usual extension of scalars.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Why does $Votimes mathbb F = 0$ ? if it is the case then there is no $mathbb F$-vector space structure on $V$ as such a thing would be a map $Votimes mathbb Fto V$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Max I see no justification for my statement, now that I think about it. I'll remove it.
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
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votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The answer is no except for the trivial case $mathbb F =mathbb F_2$ (in which $V=0$)
Indeed, assume $mathbb F$ is such a field and take $xin mathbb F^*$. In the structure of $V$, we have $2cdot x = 0$, which translates to $x^2= 1$ in $mathbb F$ (for each coordinate).
This implies that any element of $mathbb F$ is a root of $X^2-1$ which has at most to roots : $|mathbb F| leq 2$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Fantastic! Any clue what $V otimes Bbb F_2^k$ looks like? Is it ever non-zero?
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@omnomnomnom : yes, in fact if $mathbb F$ is e.g. $mathbb F_2 (X) $ then its multiplicative group is free, so $Votimes mathbb F$ is a direct sum of copies of $mathbb F$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Omnomnomnom But for $mathbbF_2^k$ and $V=mathbbF_2^ksetminus0$ under multiplication, it is zero: every element of $V$ satisfies $v^2^k=v$, hence the generators are all zero: $votimesalpha = v^2^kotimesalpha = votimes(2^kalpha) = votimes 0 = mathbf0$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great, thanks to both of you
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@jyrkilahtonen : I think that's the case : the notation $mathbb F$ is used for both
$endgroup$
– Max
6 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
The answer is no except for the trivial case $mathbb F =mathbb F_2$ (in which $V=0$)
Indeed, assume $mathbb F$ is such a field and take $xin mathbb F^*$. In the structure of $V$, we have $2cdot x = 0$, which translates to $x^2= 1$ in $mathbb F$ (for each coordinate).
This implies that any element of $mathbb F$ is a root of $X^2-1$ which has at most to roots : $|mathbb F| leq 2$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Fantastic! Any clue what $V otimes Bbb F_2^k$ looks like? Is it ever non-zero?
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@omnomnomnom : yes, in fact if $mathbb F$ is e.g. $mathbb F_2 (X) $ then its multiplicative group is free, so $Votimes mathbb F$ is a direct sum of copies of $mathbb F$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Omnomnomnom But for $mathbbF_2^k$ and $V=mathbbF_2^ksetminus0$ under multiplication, it is zero: every element of $V$ satisfies $v^2^k=v$, hence the generators are all zero: $votimesalpha = v^2^kotimesalpha = votimes(2^kalpha) = votimes 0 = mathbf0$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great, thanks to both of you
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@jyrkilahtonen : I think that's the case : the notation $mathbb F$ is used for both
$endgroup$
– Max
6 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
The answer is no except for the trivial case $mathbb F =mathbb F_2$ (in which $V=0$)
Indeed, assume $mathbb F$ is such a field and take $xin mathbb F^*$. In the structure of $V$, we have $2cdot x = 0$, which translates to $x^2= 1$ in $mathbb F$ (for each coordinate).
This implies that any element of $mathbb F$ is a root of $X^2-1$ which has at most to roots : $|mathbb F| leq 2$
$endgroup$
The answer is no except for the trivial case $mathbb F =mathbb F_2$ (in which $V=0$)
Indeed, assume $mathbb F$ is such a field and take $xin mathbb F^*$. In the structure of $V$, we have $2cdot x = 0$, which translates to $x^2= 1$ in $mathbb F$ (for each coordinate).
This implies that any element of $mathbb F$ is a root of $X^2-1$ which has at most to roots : $|mathbb F| leq 2$
answered 7 hours ago
MaxMax
23.2k1 gold badge12 silver badges54 bronze badges
23.2k1 gold badge12 silver badges54 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Fantastic! Any clue what $V otimes Bbb F_2^k$ looks like? Is it ever non-zero?
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@omnomnomnom : yes, in fact if $mathbb F$ is e.g. $mathbb F_2 (X) $ then its multiplicative group is free, so $Votimes mathbb F$ is a direct sum of copies of $mathbb F$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Omnomnomnom But for $mathbbF_2^k$ and $V=mathbbF_2^ksetminus0$ under multiplication, it is zero: every element of $V$ satisfies $v^2^k=v$, hence the generators are all zero: $votimesalpha = v^2^kotimesalpha = votimes(2^kalpha) = votimes 0 = mathbf0$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great, thanks to both of you
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@jyrkilahtonen : I think that's the case : the notation $mathbb F$ is used for both
$endgroup$
– Max
6 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Fantastic! Any clue what $V otimes Bbb F_2^k$ looks like? Is it ever non-zero?
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@omnomnomnom : yes, in fact if $mathbb F$ is e.g. $mathbb F_2 (X) $ then its multiplicative group is free, so $Votimes mathbb F$ is a direct sum of copies of $mathbb F$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Omnomnomnom But for $mathbbF_2^k$ and $V=mathbbF_2^ksetminus0$ under multiplication, it is zero: every element of $V$ satisfies $v^2^k=v$, hence the generators are all zero: $votimesalpha = v^2^kotimesalpha = votimes(2^kalpha) = votimes 0 = mathbf0$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great, thanks to both of you
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@jyrkilahtonen : I think that's the case : the notation $mathbb F$ is used for both
$endgroup$
– Max
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Fantastic! Any clue what $V otimes Bbb F_2^k$ looks like? Is it ever non-zero?
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Fantastic! Any clue what $V otimes Bbb F_2^k$ looks like? Is it ever non-zero?
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@omnomnomnom : yes, in fact if $mathbb F$ is e.g. $mathbb F_2 (X) $ then its multiplicative group is free, so $Votimes mathbb F$ is a direct sum of copies of $mathbb F$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@omnomnomnom : yes, in fact if $mathbb F$ is e.g. $mathbb F_2 (X) $ then its multiplicative group is free, so $Votimes mathbb F$ is a direct sum of copies of $mathbb F$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Omnomnomnom But for $mathbbF_2^k$ and $V=mathbbF_2^ksetminus0$ under multiplication, it is zero: every element of $V$ satisfies $v^2^k=v$, hence the generators are all zero: $votimesalpha = v^2^kotimesalpha = votimes(2^kalpha) = votimes 0 = mathbf0$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Omnomnomnom But for $mathbbF_2^k$ and $V=mathbbF_2^ksetminus0$ under multiplication, it is zero: every element of $V$ satisfies $v^2^k=v$, hence the generators are all zero: $votimesalpha = v^2^kotimesalpha = votimes(2^kalpha) = votimes 0 = mathbf0$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great, thanks to both of you
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great, thanks to both of you
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@jyrkilahtonen : I think that's the case : the notation $mathbb F$ is used for both
$endgroup$
– Max
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@jyrkilahtonen : I think that's the case : the notation $mathbb F$ is used for both
$endgroup$
– Max
6 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but hopefully a useful observation. Your question (if I have understood it correctly) can be reframed as follows.
We are given an abelian group $X = Bbb Fsetminus 0$, which we present as a $Bbb Z$-module where $x+y := xy$ and $nx := x^n$. Is it possible to take $V = X^n$ and extend multiplication by $Bbb Z$ into multiplication by $Bbb F$ in such a way that $V$ becomes a $Bbb F$-module (i.e. a vector space over $Bbb F$)?
As Max's comment below observes: any $Bbb F$-space structure $V$ exists corresponds to an $Bbb F$-linear map $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F to V$. Notably, $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F$ is the usual extension of scalars.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Why does $Votimes mathbb F = 0$ ? if it is the case then there is no $mathbb F$-vector space structure on $V$ as such a thing would be a map $Votimes mathbb Fto V$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Max I see no justification for my statement, now that I think about it. I'll remove it.
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but hopefully a useful observation. Your question (if I have understood it correctly) can be reframed as follows.
We are given an abelian group $X = Bbb Fsetminus 0$, which we present as a $Bbb Z$-module where $x+y := xy$ and $nx := x^n$. Is it possible to take $V = X^n$ and extend multiplication by $Bbb Z$ into multiplication by $Bbb F$ in such a way that $V$ becomes a $Bbb F$-module (i.e. a vector space over $Bbb F$)?
As Max's comment below observes: any $Bbb F$-space structure $V$ exists corresponds to an $Bbb F$-linear map $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F to V$. Notably, $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F$ is the usual extension of scalars.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Why does $Votimes mathbb F = 0$ ? if it is the case then there is no $mathbb F$-vector space structure on $V$ as such a thing would be a map $Votimes mathbb Fto V$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Max I see no justification for my statement, now that I think about it. I'll remove it.
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Not an answer, but hopefully a useful observation. Your question (if I have understood it correctly) can be reframed as follows.
We are given an abelian group $X = Bbb Fsetminus 0$, which we present as a $Bbb Z$-module where $x+y := xy$ and $nx := x^n$. Is it possible to take $V = X^n$ and extend multiplication by $Bbb Z$ into multiplication by $Bbb F$ in such a way that $V$ becomes a $Bbb F$-module (i.e. a vector space over $Bbb F$)?
As Max's comment below observes: any $Bbb F$-space structure $V$ exists corresponds to an $Bbb F$-linear map $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F to V$. Notably, $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F$ is the usual extension of scalars.
$endgroup$
Not an answer, but hopefully a useful observation. Your question (if I have understood it correctly) can be reframed as follows.
We are given an abelian group $X = Bbb Fsetminus 0$, which we present as a $Bbb Z$-module where $x+y := xy$ and $nx := x^n$. Is it possible to take $V = X^n$ and extend multiplication by $Bbb Z$ into multiplication by $Bbb F$ in such a way that $V$ becomes a $Bbb F$-module (i.e. a vector space over $Bbb F$)?
As Max's comment below observes: any $Bbb F$-space structure $V$ exists corresponds to an $Bbb F$-linear map $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F to V$. Notably, $V otimes_Bbb Z Bbb F$ is the usual extension of scalars.
edited 7 hours ago
community wiki
3 revs
Omnomnomnom
$begingroup$
Why does $Votimes mathbb F = 0$ ? if it is the case then there is no $mathbb F$-vector space structure on $V$ as such a thing would be a map $Votimes mathbb Fto V$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Max I see no justification for my statement, now that I think about it. I'll remove it.
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why does $Votimes mathbb F = 0$ ? if it is the case then there is no $mathbb F$-vector space structure on $V$ as such a thing would be a map $Votimes mathbb Fto V$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Max I see no justification for my statement, now that I think about it. I'll remove it.
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why does $Votimes mathbb F = 0$ ? if it is the case then there is no $mathbb F$-vector space structure on $V$ as such a thing would be a map $Votimes mathbb Fto V$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why does $Votimes mathbb F = 0$ ? if it is the case then there is no $mathbb F$-vector space structure on $V$ as such a thing would be a map $Votimes mathbb Fto V$
$endgroup$
– Max
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Max I see no justification for my statement, now that I think about it. I'll remove it.
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Max I see no justification for my statement, now that I think about it. I'll remove it.
$endgroup$
– Omnomnomnom
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
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StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown