Can my deputy manager make me work a shift I can't do?When is it appropriate to withdraw from a job offer and how to word it to the agency involved?How to handle inappropriate behaviour of your managerShould I worry about a company if hiring manager acts unprofessionally?UK: Support Hours ChangeNew manager penalising my team for 'tiredness' - how to shield them?Missing ColleagueCan I be forced to take paid leave on a day when the office is closed?I'm moving job role, however they have said i will not get a new contract

Does wetting a beer glass change the foam characteristics?

What is the need of methods like GET and POST in the HTTP protocol?

Everyone and NTFS permissions

To what extent is it worthwhile to report check fraud / refund scams?

Performance for simple code that converts a RGB tuple to hex string

A high quality contribution but an annoying error is present in my published article

Is the mass of paint relevant in rocket design?

How can this Stack Exchange site have an animated favicon?

Is it impolite to ask for an in-flight catalogue with no intention of buying?

Social leper versus social leopard

A food item only made possible by time-freezing storage?

How to manage expenditure when billing cycles and paycheck cycles are not aligned?

What can a pilot do if an air traffic controller is incapacitated?

Co-Supervisor comes to office to help her students which distracts me

Can the U.S. president make military decisions without consulting anyone?

How can I repair this gas leak on my new range? Teflon tape isn't working

Is it more effective to add yeast before or after kneading?

Which place in our solar system is the most fit for terraforming?

2000s Animated TV show where teenagers could physically go into a virtual world

How to deal with my team leader who keeps calling me about project updates even though I am on leave for personal reasons?

1, 2, 4, 8, 16, ... 33?

Designing a time thief proof safe

How use custom order in folder on Windows 7 and 10

Does "as soon as" imply simultaneity?



Can my deputy manager make me work a shift I can't do?


When is it appropriate to withdraw from a job offer and how to word it to the agency involved?How to handle inappropriate behaviour of your managerShould I worry about a company if hiring manager acts unprofessionally?UK: Support Hours ChangeNew manager penalising my team for 'tiredness' - how to shield them?Missing ColleagueCan I be forced to take paid leave on a day when the office is closed?I'm moving job role, however they have said i will not get a new contract






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








6















I've been at my workplace for 3 years. For about a year I've had set nights where I work Monday and Tuesday nights every week. I don't, and have never, worked Friday nights because I have a second job where I work Saturdays during the day.



Pretty much everyone I work with are related to one another and it's the Deputy manager's birthday next week. Because of this, he's put 4 of his family members on leave, which means none of them can work the Friday night so I've been put on to do it.



Can they do this? Because it will now mean I'll have to do a 12 hour night shift and then go straight to my day job and work 8 hours. I've been at my Saturday job for 8 years, and I've already tried asking for the Saturday off and they've said no. Surely it isn't legal for me to work straight after a night shift? Also I've had the family members/staff texting me out of work hours which shouldn't be allowed because they would have had to go into the contacts file to get my number.



Anyway, if someone can just clear this up for me and maybe give advice on what I can do? Wish I knew what my rights were.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Holz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 3





    Depends most likely on the country you are in.

    – FooBar
    14 hours ago











  • I live within the UK

    – Holz
    14 hours ago







  • 4





    Are the hours/days you work stipulated in your contract at all?

    – Gregory Currie
    14 hours ago







  • 3





    Do the two companies know that you actually work two jobs?

    – virolino
    14 hours ago











  • Some industries there are regulations on how long you can work and how much time between.... your's doesn't seem to be pilot or truck driver though

    – Kilisi
    14 hours ago

















6















I've been at my workplace for 3 years. For about a year I've had set nights where I work Monday and Tuesday nights every week. I don't, and have never, worked Friday nights because I have a second job where I work Saturdays during the day.



Pretty much everyone I work with are related to one another and it's the Deputy manager's birthday next week. Because of this, he's put 4 of his family members on leave, which means none of them can work the Friday night so I've been put on to do it.



Can they do this? Because it will now mean I'll have to do a 12 hour night shift and then go straight to my day job and work 8 hours. I've been at my Saturday job for 8 years, and I've already tried asking for the Saturday off and they've said no. Surely it isn't legal for me to work straight after a night shift? Also I've had the family members/staff texting me out of work hours which shouldn't be allowed because they would have had to go into the contacts file to get my number.



Anyway, if someone can just clear this up for me and maybe give advice on what I can do? Wish I knew what my rights were.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Holz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 3





    Depends most likely on the country you are in.

    – FooBar
    14 hours ago











  • I live within the UK

    – Holz
    14 hours ago







  • 4





    Are the hours/days you work stipulated in your contract at all?

    – Gregory Currie
    14 hours ago







  • 3





    Do the two companies know that you actually work two jobs?

    – virolino
    14 hours ago











  • Some industries there are regulations on how long you can work and how much time between.... your's doesn't seem to be pilot or truck driver though

    – Kilisi
    14 hours ago













6












6








6








I've been at my workplace for 3 years. For about a year I've had set nights where I work Monday and Tuesday nights every week. I don't, and have never, worked Friday nights because I have a second job where I work Saturdays during the day.



Pretty much everyone I work with are related to one another and it's the Deputy manager's birthday next week. Because of this, he's put 4 of his family members on leave, which means none of them can work the Friday night so I've been put on to do it.



Can they do this? Because it will now mean I'll have to do a 12 hour night shift and then go straight to my day job and work 8 hours. I've been at my Saturday job for 8 years, and I've already tried asking for the Saturday off and they've said no. Surely it isn't legal for me to work straight after a night shift? Also I've had the family members/staff texting me out of work hours which shouldn't be allowed because they would have had to go into the contacts file to get my number.



Anyway, if someone can just clear this up for me and maybe give advice on what I can do? Wish I knew what my rights were.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Holz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I've been at my workplace for 3 years. For about a year I've had set nights where I work Monday and Tuesday nights every week. I don't, and have never, worked Friday nights because I have a second job where I work Saturdays during the day.



Pretty much everyone I work with are related to one another and it's the Deputy manager's birthday next week. Because of this, he's put 4 of his family members on leave, which means none of them can work the Friday night so I've been put on to do it.



Can they do this? Because it will now mean I'll have to do a 12 hour night shift and then go straight to my day job and work 8 hours. I've been at my Saturday job for 8 years, and I've already tried asking for the Saturday off and they've said no. Surely it isn't legal for me to work straight after a night shift? Also I've had the family members/staff texting me out of work hours which shouldn't be allowed because they would have had to go into the contacts file to get my number.



Anyway, if someone can just clear this up for me and maybe give advice on what I can do? Wish I knew what my rights were.







united-kingdom unprofessional-behavior






share|improve this question









New contributor



Holz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Holz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 11 hours ago









OldPadawan

3,4623 gold badges12 silver badges25 bronze badges




3,4623 gold badges12 silver badges25 bronze badges






New contributor



Holz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked 14 hours ago









HolzHolz

362 bronze badges




362 bronze badges




New contributor



Holz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




Holz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • 3





    Depends most likely on the country you are in.

    – FooBar
    14 hours ago











  • I live within the UK

    – Holz
    14 hours ago







  • 4





    Are the hours/days you work stipulated in your contract at all?

    – Gregory Currie
    14 hours ago







  • 3





    Do the two companies know that you actually work two jobs?

    – virolino
    14 hours ago











  • Some industries there are regulations on how long you can work and how much time between.... your's doesn't seem to be pilot or truck driver though

    – Kilisi
    14 hours ago












  • 3





    Depends most likely on the country you are in.

    – FooBar
    14 hours ago











  • I live within the UK

    – Holz
    14 hours ago







  • 4





    Are the hours/days you work stipulated in your contract at all?

    – Gregory Currie
    14 hours ago







  • 3





    Do the two companies know that you actually work two jobs?

    – virolino
    14 hours ago











  • Some industries there are regulations on how long you can work and how much time between.... your's doesn't seem to be pilot or truck driver though

    – Kilisi
    14 hours ago







3




3





Depends most likely on the country you are in.

– FooBar
14 hours ago





Depends most likely on the country you are in.

– FooBar
14 hours ago













I live within the UK

– Holz
14 hours ago






I live within the UK

– Holz
14 hours ago





4




4





Are the hours/days you work stipulated in your contract at all?

– Gregory Currie
14 hours ago






Are the hours/days you work stipulated in your contract at all?

– Gregory Currie
14 hours ago





3




3





Do the two companies know that you actually work two jobs?

– virolino
14 hours ago





Do the two companies know that you actually work two jobs?

– virolino
14 hours ago













Some industries there are regulations on how long you can work and how much time between.... your's doesn't seem to be pilot or truck driver though

– Kilisi
14 hours ago





Some industries there are regulations on how long you can work and how much time between.... your's doesn't seem to be pilot or truck driver though

– Kilisi
14 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















7
















I've done a bit of reading about UK employment law, and I have some good news.



From https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/6/made




(1) A night worker’s normal hours of work in any reference period which is applicable in his case shall not exceed an average of eight hours for each 24 hours.



(2) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety or workers, to ensure that the limit specified in paragraph (1) is complied with in the case of each night worker employed by him.




The question is, what is considered "all reasonable steps".



If you have a rostered job on Saturday that goes for 8 hours, and your other employer wants to roster you on so that within that 24 hour period you would be working for more than 8 hours, then it would be very easily argued they are not taking reasonable steps. It would be very different if you were trying to hide your other employment from them. But from what I can gather, you are not.



Point 2 is deliberately soft. If an employer ONLY had to be concerned about employment at the same organisation, the language would be a lot more direct. But it is soft in recognition that it may not be possible for the employer to know, for instance, if there is a second job.



I tried to find supporting interpretations on the internet. Regarding the maximum working hours per week (48 hours), I found quotes from a few different employment experts:



https://www.weightmans.com/insights/working-time-regulations-what-happens-when-employees-have-multiple-jobs/




The Regulations state that an employer must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the 48-hour limit is adhered to. Organisations that actively ignore other work undertaken by its staff will not meet this obligation, but this wouldn’t necessarily apply when the worker deliberately misleads the employer about what else they do.




https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ie/blog/many-hours-can-employees-work-work-second-job/




Where there are weeks that employees must work in excess of 48 hours, employers must also be vigilant in making sure that the requisite rest periods are observed.



...



There is no issue with an employee working a second job, although employers must take all reasonable care in order to adhere to the above obligations.




Ultimately, you should provide both employers with documentation around when you work all shifts.



Now that your Mon/Tue employer is aware of your Saturday shift, they must take reasonable steps to ensure there is no breach of the act. Note that telling you to not work the other shift would probably not be considered a reasonable step.






share|improve this answer






















  • 1





    There are also some rules that say if an employee carries out their job under conditions X for time period Y then this effectively becomes the terms of employment.

    – P. Hopkinson
    4 hours ago


















6
















Your company can do a lot of things legally you don’t like. But this isn’t your company doing it, it’s your deputy manager.



So step one is that you tell your deputy manager you are not coming. You never worked on that day, and you are not starting it. If there’s a problem it’s because the deputy manager gave four people the day off, for his own selfish reasons.



You might consider working on a Friday if there is an emergency. The deputy manager giving four relatives the day off is not an emergency. The manager firing the deputy manager and his relatives, that might be an emergency:-)
The next step would be telling the same story one level higher up.



Why you are never working on Fridays is your business.






share|improve this answer


































    3
















    As far as I know you don't have any legal rights in this situation.



    But you should be telling the deputy manager you already have plans for Saturday that you cannot reschedule, if that fails ask the manager if you must. Family dominated businesses it is usually best to give the family a bit of leeway if at all possible.



    Often in a two job situation you have a primary employer whose needs supercede the secondary one if necessary. You may want to choose which you are willing to miss out on.



    Personally I'd try and not do the Friday night and if that wasn't possible I'd just bite the bullet and work straight through without making a big drama over it.






    share|improve this answer

























    • As Kilisi said, unless you're doing a job where safety is a concern or it's a physical job, working 20 hours in a row is doable.

      – Gregory Currie
      13 hours ago











    • It can't be that an employer in the UK could legally change hours however they want. If this was always legal, employer would use it to have unwanted employees leave and get around employment laws. Answer would be better with parameters within which hours can be moved around. But yeah, a one-off when service must be maintained, probably ok in this case.

      – Jeffrey
      12 hours ago







    • 2





      "working 20 hours in a row is doable" The second employer definitely won't be happy to have an unrested and tired employee. This is also a case in the EU (so there are more worker rights as in the US), e.g. for minimal rest periods. I couldn't quickly find something, but I guess it is not legal to work for two employees without the rest periods. (Which for example could be important for insurance)

      – FooBar
      12 hours ago











    • @FooBar I didn't think mentioning the possible outcome of threatening your employer with legal action because your other employer needs you was necessary

      – Kilisi
      11 hours ago






    • 3





      It's not about threatening an employer, it's about realizing that it's maybe simply not allowed to work both shifts so he has to cancel one of them.

      – FooBar
      11 hours ago


















    0
















    Opinion: I think it is unlikely that they can compel you to work unusual hours at such short notice.



    Obviously they can't physically force you and if they try to fire you then I don't think a court would find they have done so with reasonable cause.



    I am not a lawyer. If you want to go down this route then you should get some kind of legal advice, ideally before you try to tell your employer how the law works. This could be a solicitor or you could go to the Citizens Advice Bureaux (look it up, it is free and there is one near you).



    However: if at all possible you want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand.



    The more adversarial the situation becomes the more likely it is that the family will either bully you or fire you. While both of these things would be illegal, it won't be fun or rewarding for you to try to prove this. Hence, you need to try to find a way of resolving the situation where no one escalates anything and everyone can save face.



    I think you've got three non-exclusive options:



    1. Tell your supervisor you can't work on Friday. Do this ASAP, stick to your story, and hope that they find a solution that doesn't involve turning the screws on you.

    2. Appeal to authority, head straight to the top dog and explain the situation. Say that you believe it is a misunderstanding but are worried that the situation might get out of hand and is likely to be easier to sort out sooner rather than later.

    3. Find a way to make it work. This really is a last resort but you should consider this before burning any bridges.





    share|improve this answer



























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "423"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: false,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );







      Holz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









      draft saved

      draft discarded
















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworkplace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145282%2fcan-my-deputy-manager-make-me-work-a-shift-i-cant-do%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown




















      StackExchange.ready(function ()
      $("#show-editor-button input, #show-editor-button button").click(function ()
      var showEditor = function ()
      $("#show-editor-button").addClass("d-none");
      $("#post-form").removeClass("d-none");
      StackExchange.editor.finallyInit();
      ;

      var useFancy = $(this).data('confirm-use-fancy');
      if (useFancy == 'True')
      var popupTitle = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-title');
      var popupBody = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-body');
      var popupAccept = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-accept-button');

      $(this).loadPopup(
      url: '/post/self-answer-popup',
      loaded: function (popup)
      var pTitle = $(popup).find('h2');
      var pBody = $(popup).find('.popup-body');
      var pSubmit = $(popup).find('.popup-submit');

      pTitle.text(popupTitle);
      pBody.html(popupBody);
      pSubmit.val(popupAccept).click(showEditor);

      )
      else
      var confirmText = $(this).data('confirm-text');
      if (confirmText ? confirm(confirmText) : true)
      showEditor();


      );
      );






      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      7
















      I've done a bit of reading about UK employment law, and I have some good news.



      From https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/6/made




      (1) A night worker’s normal hours of work in any reference period which is applicable in his case shall not exceed an average of eight hours for each 24 hours.



      (2) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety or workers, to ensure that the limit specified in paragraph (1) is complied with in the case of each night worker employed by him.




      The question is, what is considered "all reasonable steps".



      If you have a rostered job on Saturday that goes for 8 hours, and your other employer wants to roster you on so that within that 24 hour period you would be working for more than 8 hours, then it would be very easily argued they are not taking reasonable steps. It would be very different if you were trying to hide your other employment from them. But from what I can gather, you are not.



      Point 2 is deliberately soft. If an employer ONLY had to be concerned about employment at the same organisation, the language would be a lot more direct. But it is soft in recognition that it may not be possible for the employer to know, for instance, if there is a second job.



      I tried to find supporting interpretations on the internet. Regarding the maximum working hours per week (48 hours), I found quotes from a few different employment experts:



      https://www.weightmans.com/insights/working-time-regulations-what-happens-when-employees-have-multiple-jobs/




      The Regulations state that an employer must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the 48-hour limit is adhered to. Organisations that actively ignore other work undertaken by its staff will not meet this obligation, but this wouldn’t necessarily apply when the worker deliberately misleads the employer about what else they do.




      https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ie/blog/many-hours-can-employees-work-work-second-job/




      Where there are weeks that employees must work in excess of 48 hours, employers must also be vigilant in making sure that the requisite rest periods are observed.



      ...



      There is no issue with an employee working a second job, although employers must take all reasonable care in order to adhere to the above obligations.




      Ultimately, you should provide both employers with documentation around when you work all shifts.



      Now that your Mon/Tue employer is aware of your Saturday shift, they must take reasonable steps to ensure there is no breach of the act. Note that telling you to not work the other shift would probably not be considered a reasonable step.






      share|improve this answer






















      • 1





        There are also some rules that say if an employee carries out their job under conditions X for time period Y then this effectively becomes the terms of employment.

        – P. Hopkinson
        4 hours ago















      7
















      I've done a bit of reading about UK employment law, and I have some good news.



      From https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/6/made




      (1) A night worker’s normal hours of work in any reference period which is applicable in his case shall not exceed an average of eight hours for each 24 hours.



      (2) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety or workers, to ensure that the limit specified in paragraph (1) is complied with in the case of each night worker employed by him.




      The question is, what is considered "all reasonable steps".



      If you have a rostered job on Saturday that goes for 8 hours, and your other employer wants to roster you on so that within that 24 hour period you would be working for more than 8 hours, then it would be very easily argued they are not taking reasonable steps. It would be very different if you were trying to hide your other employment from them. But from what I can gather, you are not.



      Point 2 is deliberately soft. If an employer ONLY had to be concerned about employment at the same organisation, the language would be a lot more direct. But it is soft in recognition that it may not be possible for the employer to know, for instance, if there is a second job.



      I tried to find supporting interpretations on the internet. Regarding the maximum working hours per week (48 hours), I found quotes from a few different employment experts:



      https://www.weightmans.com/insights/working-time-regulations-what-happens-when-employees-have-multiple-jobs/




      The Regulations state that an employer must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the 48-hour limit is adhered to. Organisations that actively ignore other work undertaken by its staff will not meet this obligation, but this wouldn’t necessarily apply when the worker deliberately misleads the employer about what else they do.




      https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ie/blog/many-hours-can-employees-work-work-second-job/




      Where there are weeks that employees must work in excess of 48 hours, employers must also be vigilant in making sure that the requisite rest periods are observed.



      ...



      There is no issue with an employee working a second job, although employers must take all reasonable care in order to adhere to the above obligations.




      Ultimately, you should provide both employers with documentation around when you work all shifts.



      Now that your Mon/Tue employer is aware of your Saturday shift, they must take reasonable steps to ensure there is no breach of the act. Note that telling you to not work the other shift would probably not be considered a reasonable step.






      share|improve this answer






















      • 1





        There are also some rules that say if an employee carries out their job under conditions X for time period Y then this effectively becomes the terms of employment.

        – P. Hopkinson
        4 hours ago













      7














      7










      7









      I've done a bit of reading about UK employment law, and I have some good news.



      From https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/6/made




      (1) A night worker’s normal hours of work in any reference period which is applicable in his case shall not exceed an average of eight hours for each 24 hours.



      (2) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety or workers, to ensure that the limit specified in paragraph (1) is complied with in the case of each night worker employed by him.




      The question is, what is considered "all reasonable steps".



      If you have a rostered job on Saturday that goes for 8 hours, and your other employer wants to roster you on so that within that 24 hour period you would be working for more than 8 hours, then it would be very easily argued they are not taking reasonable steps. It would be very different if you were trying to hide your other employment from them. But from what I can gather, you are not.



      Point 2 is deliberately soft. If an employer ONLY had to be concerned about employment at the same organisation, the language would be a lot more direct. But it is soft in recognition that it may not be possible for the employer to know, for instance, if there is a second job.



      I tried to find supporting interpretations on the internet. Regarding the maximum working hours per week (48 hours), I found quotes from a few different employment experts:



      https://www.weightmans.com/insights/working-time-regulations-what-happens-when-employees-have-multiple-jobs/




      The Regulations state that an employer must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the 48-hour limit is adhered to. Organisations that actively ignore other work undertaken by its staff will not meet this obligation, but this wouldn’t necessarily apply when the worker deliberately misleads the employer about what else they do.




      https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ie/blog/many-hours-can-employees-work-work-second-job/




      Where there are weeks that employees must work in excess of 48 hours, employers must also be vigilant in making sure that the requisite rest periods are observed.



      ...



      There is no issue with an employee working a second job, although employers must take all reasonable care in order to adhere to the above obligations.




      Ultimately, you should provide both employers with documentation around when you work all shifts.



      Now that your Mon/Tue employer is aware of your Saturday shift, they must take reasonable steps to ensure there is no breach of the act. Note that telling you to not work the other shift would probably not be considered a reasonable step.






      share|improve this answer















      I've done a bit of reading about UK employment law, and I have some good news.



      From https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/6/made




      (1) A night worker’s normal hours of work in any reference period which is applicable in his case shall not exceed an average of eight hours for each 24 hours.



      (2) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety or workers, to ensure that the limit specified in paragraph (1) is complied with in the case of each night worker employed by him.




      The question is, what is considered "all reasonable steps".



      If you have a rostered job on Saturday that goes for 8 hours, and your other employer wants to roster you on so that within that 24 hour period you would be working for more than 8 hours, then it would be very easily argued they are not taking reasonable steps. It would be very different if you were trying to hide your other employment from them. But from what I can gather, you are not.



      Point 2 is deliberately soft. If an employer ONLY had to be concerned about employment at the same organisation, the language would be a lot more direct. But it is soft in recognition that it may not be possible for the employer to know, for instance, if there is a second job.



      I tried to find supporting interpretations on the internet. Regarding the maximum working hours per week (48 hours), I found quotes from a few different employment experts:



      https://www.weightmans.com/insights/working-time-regulations-what-happens-when-employees-have-multiple-jobs/




      The Regulations state that an employer must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the 48-hour limit is adhered to. Organisations that actively ignore other work undertaken by its staff will not meet this obligation, but this wouldn’t necessarily apply when the worker deliberately misleads the employer about what else they do.




      https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ie/blog/many-hours-can-employees-work-work-second-job/




      Where there are weeks that employees must work in excess of 48 hours, employers must also be vigilant in making sure that the requisite rest periods are observed.



      ...



      There is no issue with an employee working a second job, although employers must take all reasonable care in order to adhere to the above obligations.




      Ultimately, you should provide both employers with documentation around when you work all shifts.



      Now that your Mon/Tue employer is aware of your Saturday shift, they must take reasonable steps to ensure there is no breach of the act. Note that telling you to not work the other shift would probably not be considered a reasonable step.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 9 hours ago

























      answered 10 hours ago









      Gregory CurrieGregory Currie

      16.7k12 gold badges62 silver badges82 bronze badges




      16.7k12 gold badges62 silver badges82 bronze badges










      • 1





        There are also some rules that say if an employee carries out their job under conditions X for time period Y then this effectively becomes the terms of employment.

        – P. Hopkinson
        4 hours ago












      • 1





        There are also some rules that say if an employee carries out their job under conditions X for time period Y then this effectively becomes the terms of employment.

        – P. Hopkinson
        4 hours ago







      1




      1





      There are also some rules that say if an employee carries out their job under conditions X for time period Y then this effectively becomes the terms of employment.

      – P. Hopkinson
      4 hours ago





      There are also some rules that say if an employee carries out their job under conditions X for time period Y then this effectively becomes the terms of employment.

      – P. Hopkinson
      4 hours ago













      6
















      Your company can do a lot of things legally you don’t like. But this isn’t your company doing it, it’s your deputy manager.



      So step one is that you tell your deputy manager you are not coming. You never worked on that day, and you are not starting it. If there’s a problem it’s because the deputy manager gave four people the day off, for his own selfish reasons.



      You might consider working on a Friday if there is an emergency. The deputy manager giving four relatives the day off is not an emergency. The manager firing the deputy manager and his relatives, that might be an emergency:-)
      The next step would be telling the same story one level higher up.



      Why you are never working on Fridays is your business.






      share|improve this answer































        6
















        Your company can do a lot of things legally you don’t like. But this isn’t your company doing it, it’s your deputy manager.



        So step one is that you tell your deputy manager you are not coming. You never worked on that day, and you are not starting it. If there’s a problem it’s because the deputy manager gave four people the day off, for his own selfish reasons.



        You might consider working on a Friday if there is an emergency. The deputy manager giving four relatives the day off is not an emergency. The manager firing the deputy manager and his relatives, that might be an emergency:-)
        The next step would be telling the same story one level higher up.



        Why you are never working on Fridays is your business.






        share|improve this answer





























          6














          6










          6









          Your company can do a lot of things legally you don’t like. But this isn’t your company doing it, it’s your deputy manager.



          So step one is that you tell your deputy manager you are not coming. You never worked on that day, and you are not starting it. If there’s a problem it’s because the deputy manager gave four people the day off, for his own selfish reasons.



          You might consider working on a Friday if there is an emergency. The deputy manager giving four relatives the day off is not an emergency. The manager firing the deputy manager and his relatives, that might be an emergency:-)
          The next step would be telling the same story one level higher up.



          Why you are never working on Fridays is your business.






          share|improve this answer















          Your company can do a lot of things legally you don’t like. But this isn’t your company doing it, it’s your deputy manager.



          So step one is that you tell your deputy manager you are not coming. You never worked on that day, and you are not starting it. If there’s a problem it’s because the deputy manager gave four people the day off, for his own selfish reasons.



          You might consider working on a Friday if there is an emergency. The deputy manager giving four relatives the day off is not an emergency. The manager firing the deputy manager and his relatives, that might be an emergency:-)
          The next step would be telling the same story one level higher up.



          Why you are never working on Fridays is your business.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 8 hours ago

























          answered 11 hours ago









          gnasher729gnasher729

          103k48 gold badges187 silver badges326 bronze badges




          103k48 gold badges187 silver badges326 bronze badges
























              3
















              As far as I know you don't have any legal rights in this situation.



              But you should be telling the deputy manager you already have plans for Saturday that you cannot reschedule, if that fails ask the manager if you must. Family dominated businesses it is usually best to give the family a bit of leeway if at all possible.



              Often in a two job situation you have a primary employer whose needs supercede the secondary one if necessary. You may want to choose which you are willing to miss out on.



              Personally I'd try and not do the Friday night and if that wasn't possible I'd just bite the bullet and work straight through without making a big drama over it.






              share|improve this answer

























              • As Kilisi said, unless you're doing a job where safety is a concern or it's a physical job, working 20 hours in a row is doable.

                – Gregory Currie
                13 hours ago











              • It can't be that an employer in the UK could legally change hours however they want. If this was always legal, employer would use it to have unwanted employees leave and get around employment laws. Answer would be better with parameters within which hours can be moved around. But yeah, a one-off when service must be maintained, probably ok in this case.

                – Jeffrey
                12 hours ago







              • 2





                "working 20 hours in a row is doable" The second employer definitely won't be happy to have an unrested and tired employee. This is also a case in the EU (so there are more worker rights as in the US), e.g. for minimal rest periods. I couldn't quickly find something, but I guess it is not legal to work for two employees without the rest periods. (Which for example could be important for insurance)

                – FooBar
                12 hours ago











              • @FooBar I didn't think mentioning the possible outcome of threatening your employer with legal action because your other employer needs you was necessary

                – Kilisi
                11 hours ago






              • 3





                It's not about threatening an employer, it's about realizing that it's maybe simply not allowed to work both shifts so he has to cancel one of them.

                – FooBar
                11 hours ago















              3
















              As far as I know you don't have any legal rights in this situation.



              But you should be telling the deputy manager you already have plans for Saturday that you cannot reschedule, if that fails ask the manager if you must. Family dominated businesses it is usually best to give the family a bit of leeway if at all possible.



              Often in a two job situation you have a primary employer whose needs supercede the secondary one if necessary. You may want to choose which you are willing to miss out on.



              Personally I'd try and not do the Friday night and if that wasn't possible I'd just bite the bullet and work straight through without making a big drama over it.






              share|improve this answer

























              • As Kilisi said, unless you're doing a job where safety is a concern or it's a physical job, working 20 hours in a row is doable.

                – Gregory Currie
                13 hours ago











              • It can't be that an employer in the UK could legally change hours however they want. If this was always legal, employer would use it to have unwanted employees leave and get around employment laws. Answer would be better with parameters within which hours can be moved around. But yeah, a one-off when service must be maintained, probably ok in this case.

                – Jeffrey
                12 hours ago







              • 2





                "working 20 hours in a row is doable" The second employer definitely won't be happy to have an unrested and tired employee. This is also a case in the EU (so there are more worker rights as in the US), e.g. for minimal rest periods. I couldn't quickly find something, but I guess it is not legal to work for two employees without the rest periods. (Which for example could be important for insurance)

                – FooBar
                12 hours ago











              • @FooBar I didn't think mentioning the possible outcome of threatening your employer with legal action because your other employer needs you was necessary

                – Kilisi
                11 hours ago






              • 3





                It's not about threatening an employer, it's about realizing that it's maybe simply not allowed to work both shifts so he has to cancel one of them.

                – FooBar
                11 hours ago













              3














              3










              3









              As far as I know you don't have any legal rights in this situation.



              But you should be telling the deputy manager you already have plans for Saturday that you cannot reschedule, if that fails ask the manager if you must. Family dominated businesses it is usually best to give the family a bit of leeway if at all possible.



              Often in a two job situation you have a primary employer whose needs supercede the secondary one if necessary. You may want to choose which you are willing to miss out on.



              Personally I'd try and not do the Friday night and if that wasn't possible I'd just bite the bullet and work straight through without making a big drama over it.






              share|improve this answer













              As far as I know you don't have any legal rights in this situation.



              But you should be telling the deputy manager you already have plans for Saturday that you cannot reschedule, if that fails ask the manager if you must. Family dominated businesses it is usually best to give the family a bit of leeway if at all possible.



              Often in a two job situation you have a primary employer whose needs supercede the secondary one if necessary. You may want to choose which you are willing to miss out on.



              Personally I'd try and not do the Friday night and if that wasn't possible I'd just bite the bullet and work straight through without making a big drama over it.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 13 hours ago









              KilisiKilisi

              126k73 gold badges290 silver badges484 bronze badges




              126k73 gold badges290 silver badges484 bronze badges















              • As Kilisi said, unless you're doing a job where safety is a concern or it's a physical job, working 20 hours in a row is doable.

                – Gregory Currie
                13 hours ago











              • It can't be that an employer in the UK could legally change hours however they want. If this was always legal, employer would use it to have unwanted employees leave and get around employment laws. Answer would be better with parameters within which hours can be moved around. But yeah, a one-off when service must be maintained, probably ok in this case.

                – Jeffrey
                12 hours ago







              • 2





                "working 20 hours in a row is doable" The second employer definitely won't be happy to have an unrested and tired employee. This is also a case in the EU (so there are more worker rights as in the US), e.g. for minimal rest periods. I couldn't quickly find something, but I guess it is not legal to work for two employees without the rest periods. (Which for example could be important for insurance)

                – FooBar
                12 hours ago











              • @FooBar I didn't think mentioning the possible outcome of threatening your employer with legal action because your other employer needs you was necessary

                – Kilisi
                11 hours ago






              • 3





                It's not about threatening an employer, it's about realizing that it's maybe simply not allowed to work both shifts so he has to cancel one of them.

                – FooBar
                11 hours ago

















              • As Kilisi said, unless you're doing a job where safety is a concern or it's a physical job, working 20 hours in a row is doable.

                – Gregory Currie
                13 hours ago











              • It can't be that an employer in the UK could legally change hours however they want. If this was always legal, employer would use it to have unwanted employees leave and get around employment laws. Answer would be better with parameters within which hours can be moved around. But yeah, a one-off when service must be maintained, probably ok in this case.

                – Jeffrey
                12 hours ago







              • 2





                "working 20 hours in a row is doable" The second employer definitely won't be happy to have an unrested and tired employee. This is also a case in the EU (so there are more worker rights as in the US), e.g. for minimal rest periods. I couldn't quickly find something, but I guess it is not legal to work for two employees without the rest periods. (Which for example could be important for insurance)

                – FooBar
                12 hours ago











              • @FooBar I didn't think mentioning the possible outcome of threatening your employer with legal action because your other employer needs you was necessary

                – Kilisi
                11 hours ago






              • 3





                It's not about threatening an employer, it's about realizing that it's maybe simply not allowed to work both shifts so he has to cancel one of them.

                – FooBar
                11 hours ago
















              As Kilisi said, unless you're doing a job where safety is a concern or it's a physical job, working 20 hours in a row is doable.

              – Gregory Currie
              13 hours ago





              As Kilisi said, unless you're doing a job where safety is a concern or it's a physical job, working 20 hours in a row is doable.

              – Gregory Currie
              13 hours ago













              It can't be that an employer in the UK could legally change hours however they want. If this was always legal, employer would use it to have unwanted employees leave and get around employment laws. Answer would be better with parameters within which hours can be moved around. But yeah, a one-off when service must be maintained, probably ok in this case.

              – Jeffrey
              12 hours ago






              It can't be that an employer in the UK could legally change hours however they want. If this was always legal, employer would use it to have unwanted employees leave and get around employment laws. Answer would be better with parameters within which hours can be moved around. But yeah, a one-off when service must be maintained, probably ok in this case.

              – Jeffrey
              12 hours ago





              2




              2





              "working 20 hours in a row is doable" The second employer definitely won't be happy to have an unrested and tired employee. This is also a case in the EU (so there are more worker rights as in the US), e.g. for minimal rest periods. I couldn't quickly find something, but I guess it is not legal to work for two employees without the rest periods. (Which for example could be important for insurance)

              – FooBar
              12 hours ago





              "working 20 hours in a row is doable" The second employer definitely won't be happy to have an unrested and tired employee. This is also a case in the EU (so there are more worker rights as in the US), e.g. for minimal rest periods. I couldn't quickly find something, but I guess it is not legal to work for two employees without the rest periods. (Which for example could be important for insurance)

              – FooBar
              12 hours ago













              @FooBar I didn't think mentioning the possible outcome of threatening your employer with legal action because your other employer needs you was necessary

              – Kilisi
              11 hours ago





              @FooBar I didn't think mentioning the possible outcome of threatening your employer with legal action because your other employer needs you was necessary

              – Kilisi
              11 hours ago




              3




              3





              It's not about threatening an employer, it's about realizing that it's maybe simply not allowed to work both shifts so he has to cancel one of them.

              – FooBar
              11 hours ago





              It's not about threatening an employer, it's about realizing that it's maybe simply not allowed to work both shifts so he has to cancel one of them.

              – FooBar
              11 hours ago











              0
















              Opinion: I think it is unlikely that they can compel you to work unusual hours at such short notice.



              Obviously they can't physically force you and if they try to fire you then I don't think a court would find they have done so with reasonable cause.



              I am not a lawyer. If you want to go down this route then you should get some kind of legal advice, ideally before you try to tell your employer how the law works. This could be a solicitor or you could go to the Citizens Advice Bureaux (look it up, it is free and there is one near you).



              However: if at all possible you want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand.



              The more adversarial the situation becomes the more likely it is that the family will either bully you or fire you. While both of these things would be illegal, it won't be fun or rewarding for you to try to prove this. Hence, you need to try to find a way of resolving the situation where no one escalates anything and everyone can save face.



              I think you've got three non-exclusive options:



              1. Tell your supervisor you can't work on Friday. Do this ASAP, stick to your story, and hope that they find a solution that doesn't involve turning the screws on you.

              2. Appeal to authority, head straight to the top dog and explain the situation. Say that you believe it is a misunderstanding but are worried that the situation might get out of hand and is likely to be easier to sort out sooner rather than later.

              3. Find a way to make it work. This really is a last resort but you should consider this before burning any bridges.





              share|improve this answer





























                0
















                Opinion: I think it is unlikely that they can compel you to work unusual hours at such short notice.



                Obviously they can't physically force you and if they try to fire you then I don't think a court would find they have done so with reasonable cause.



                I am not a lawyer. If you want to go down this route then you should get some kind of legal advice, ideally before you try to tell your employer how the law works. This could be a solicitor or you could go to the Citizens Advice Bureaux (look it up, it is free and there is one near you).



                However: if at all possible you want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand.



                The more adversarial the situation becomes the more likely it is that the family will either bully you or fire you. While both of these things would be illegal, it won't be fun or rewarding for you to try to prove this. Hence, you need to try to find a way of resolving the situation where no one escalates anything and everyone can save face.



                I think you've got three non-exclusive options:



                1. Tell your supervisor you can't work on Friday. Do this ASAP, stick to your story, and hope that they find a solution that doesn't involve turning the screws on you.

                2. Appeal to authority, head straight to the top dog and explain the situation. Say that you believe it is a misunderstanding but are worried that the situation might get out of hand and is likely to be easier to sort out sooner rather than later.

                3. Find a way to make it work. This really is a last resort but you should consider this before burning any bridges.





                share|improve this answer



























                  0














                  0










                  0









                  Opinion: I think it is unlikely that they can compel you to work unusual hours at such short notice.



                  Obviously they can't physically force you and if they try to fire you then I don't think a court would find they have done so with reasonable cause.



                  I am not a lawyer. If you want to go down this route then you should get some kind of legal advice, ideally before you try to tell your employer how the law works. This could be a solicitor or you could go to the Citizens Advice Bureaux (look it up, it is free and there is one near you).



                  However: if at all possible you want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand.



                  The more adversarial the situation becomes the more likely it is that the family will either bully you or fire you. While both of these things would be illegal, it won't be fun or rewarding for you to try to prove this. Hence, you need to try to find a way of resolving the situation where no one escalates anything and everyone can save face.



                  I think you've got three non-exclusive options:



                  1. Tell your supervisor you can't work on Friday. Do this ASAP, stick to your story, and hope that they find a solution that doesn't involve turning the screws on you.

                  2. Appeal to authority, head straight to the top dog and explain the situation. Say that you believe it is a misunderstanding but are worried that the situation might get out of hand and is likely to be easier to sort out sooner rather than later.

                  3. Find a way to make it work. This really is a last resort but you should consider this before burning any bridges.





                  share|improve this answer













                  Opinion: I think it is unlikely that they can compel you to work unusual hours at such short notice.



                  Obviously they can't physically force you and if they try to fire you then I don't think a court would find they have done so with reasonable cause.



                  I am not a lawyer. If you want to go down this route then you should get some kind of legal advice, ideally before you try to tell your employer how the law works. This could be a solicitor or you could go to the Citizens Advice Bureaux (look it up, it is free and there is one near you).



                  However: if at all possible you want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand.



                  The more adversarial the situation becomes the more likely it is that the family will either bully you or fire you. While both of these things would be illegal, it won't be fun or rewarding for you to try to prove this. Hence, you need to try to find a way of resolving the situation where no one escalates anything and everyone can save face.



                  I think you've got three non-exclusive options:



                  1. Tell your supervisor you can't work on Friday. Do this ASAP, stick to your story, and hope that they find a solution that doesn't involve turning the screws on you.

                  2. Appeal to authority, head straight to the top dog and explain the situation. Say that you believe it is a misunderstanding but are worried that the situation might get out of hand and is likely to be easier to sort out sooner rather than later.

                  3. Find a way to make it work. This really is a last resort but you should consider this before burning any bridges.






                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 4 hours ago









                  P. HopkinsonP. Hopkinson

                  4,3439 silver badges22 bronze badges




                  4,3439 silver badges22 bronze badges
























                      Holz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                      draft saved

                      draft discarded

















                      Holz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                      Holz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                      Holz is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                      Thanks for contributing an answer to The Workplace Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworkplace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145282%2fcan-my-deputy-manager-make-me-work-a-shift-i-cant-do%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown











                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Sahara Skak | Bilen | Luke uk diar | NawigatsjuunCommonskategorii: SaharaWikivoyage raisfeerer: Sahara26° N, 13° O

                      The fall designs the understood secretary. Looking glass Science Shock Discovery Hot Everybody Loves Raymond Smile 곳 서비스 성실하다 Defas Kaloolon Definition: To combine or impregnate with sulphur or any of its compounds as to sulphurize caoutchouc in vulcanizing Flame colored Reason Useful Thin Help 갖다 유명하다 낙엽 장례식 Country Iron Definition: A fencer a gladiator one who exhibits his skill in the use of the sword Definition: The American black throated bunting Spiza Americana Nostalgic Needy Method to my madness 시키다 평가되다 전부 소설가 우아하다 Argument Tin Feeling Representative Gym Music Gaur Chicken 일쑤 코치 편 학생증 The harbor values the sugar. Vasagle Yammoe Enstatite Definition: Capable of being limited Road Neighborly Five Refer Built Kangaroo 비비다 Degree Release Bargain Horse 하루 형님 유교 석 동부 괴롭히다 경제력

                      19. јануар Садржај Догађаји Рођења Смрти Празници и дани сећања Види још Референце Мени за навигацијуу