Curves with isogenous JacobiansWhen is a product of elliptic curves isogenous to the Jacobian of a hyperelliptic curve?Line bundles on special abelian surfacesGeneral degree $d$ surface in $mathbbP^3$Can an ample class be written as a sum of two classes which are not even nef?Jacobians of genus 2 curves isogenous to a square of a supersingular elliptic curve over $mathbbF_p^2$Torsion free sheaves on reducible curvesHyperelliptic Jacobians with (or without) CMFinite etale covers of products of curves

Curves with isogenous Jacobians


When is a product of elliptic curves isogenous to the Jacobian of a hyperelliptic curve?Line bundles on special abelian surfacesGeneral degree $d$ surface in $mathbbP^3$Can an ample class be written as a sum of two classes which are not even nef?Jacobians of genus 2 curves isogenous to a square of a supersingular elliptic curve over $mathbbF_p^2$Torsion free sheaves on reducible curvesHyperelliptic Jacobians with (or without) CMFinite etale covers of products of curves













2












$begingroup$


Suppose that $C_1, C_2$ are two curves of genus $g geq 2$ defined over a number field $K$. Let $J_1, J_2$ respectively be their Jacobians. Suppose that $J_1, J_2$ are isogenous over $K$ and $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ are both non-empty, can $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ have different cardinalities?



For $g = 1$ and without the assumption that $C_i(K) ne emptyset$, the conclusion is obviously false. Take any elliptic curve $E$ over $mathbbQ$ of positive rank such that the $2$-Selmer group of $E$ is non-trivial, so that there is a genus one curve $C$ which represents a non-trivial $2$-Selmer element of $E$. Then $E$ is isomorphic to the Jacobian of $C$, and the Jacobian of $E$ is itself, so that $C,E$ have isogenous Jacobians but $E(mathbbQ)$ is by assumption infinite but $C(mathbbQ) = emptyset$.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$


















    2












    $begingroup$


    Suppose that $C_1, C_2$ are two curves of genus $g geq 2$ defined over a number field $K$. Let $J_1, J_2$ respectively be their Jacobians. Suppose that $J_1, J_2$ are isogenous over $K$ and $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ are both non-empty, can $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ have different cardinalities?



    For $g = 1$ and without the assumption that $C_i(K) ne emptyset$, the conclusion is obviously false. Take any elliptic curve $E$ over $mathbbQ$ of positive rank such that the $2$-Selmer group of $E$ is non-trivial, so that there is a genus one curve $C$ which represents a non-trivial $2$-Selmer element of $E$. Then $E$ is isomorphic to the Jacobian of $C$, and the Jacobian of $E$ is itself, so that $C,E$ have isogenous Jacobians but $E(mathbbQ)$ is by assumption infinite but $C(mathbbQ) = emptyset$.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$
















      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      Suppose that $C_1, C_2$ are two curves of genus $g geq 2$ defined over a number field $K$. Let $J_1, J_2$ respectively be their Jacobians. Suppose that $J_1, J_2$ are isogenous over $K$ and $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ are both non-empty, can $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ have different cardinalities?



      For $g = 1$ and without the assumption that $C_i(K) ne emptyset$, the conclusion is obviously false. Take any elliptic curve $E$ over $mathbbQ$ of positive rank such that the $2$-Selmer group of $E$ is non-trivial, so that there is a genus one curve $C$ which represents a non-trivial $2$-Selmer element of $E$. Then $E$ is isomorphic to the Jacobian of $C$, and the Jacobian of $E$ is itself, so that $C,E$ have isogenous Jacobians but $E(mathbbQ)$ is by assumption infinite but $C(mathbbQ) = emptyset$.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Suppose that $C_1, C_2$ are two curves of genus $g geq 2$ defined over a number field $K$. Let $J_1, J_2$ respectively be their Jacobians. Suppose that $J_1, J_2$ are isogenous over $K$ and $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ are both non-empty, can $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ have different cardinalities?



      For $g = 1$ and without the assumption that $C_i(K) ne emptyset$, the conclusion is obviously false. Take any elliptic curve $E$ over $mathbbQ$ of positive rank such that the $2$-Selmer group of $E$ is non-trivial, so that there is a genus one curve $C$ which represents a non-trivial $2$-Selmer element of $E$. Then $E$ is isomorphic to the Jacobian of $C$, and the Jacobian of $E$ is itself, so that $C,E$ have isogenous Jacobians but $E(mathbbQ)$ is by assumption infinite but $C(mathbbQ) = emptyset$.







      ag.algebraic-geometry arithmetic-geometry






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked 8 hours ago









      Stanley Yao XiaoStanley Yao Xiao

      9,1034 gold badges27 silver badges89 bronze badges




      9,1034 gold badges27 silver badges89 bronze badges























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4













          $begingroup$

          Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
          already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
          curve
          249.a.249.1,
          $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
          249.a.6723.1,
          $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
          counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
          $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
          277.a
          (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
          but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
          644.a
          (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
          --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
          The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
          isogeny class 294.a,
          each with $4$ rational points.



          By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
          for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
          and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
          Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$

















            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "504"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );













            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f339224%2fcurves-with-isogenous-jacobians%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            4













            $begingroup$

            Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
            already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
            curve
            249.a.249.1,
            $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
            249.a.6723.1,
            $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
            counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
            $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
            277.a
            (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
            but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
            644.a
            (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
            --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
            The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
            isogeny class 294.a,
            each with $4$ rational points.



            By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
            for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
            and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
            Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



















              4













              $begingroup$

              Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
              already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
              curve
              249.a.249.1,
              $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
              249.a.6723.1,
              $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
              counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
              $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
              277.a
              (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
              but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
              644.a
              (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
              --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
              The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
              isogeny class 294.a,
              each with $4$ rational points.



              By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
              for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
              and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
              Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                4














                4










                4







                $begingroup$

                Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
                already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
                curve
                249.a.249.1,
                $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
                249.a.6723.1,
                $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
                counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
                $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
                277.a
                (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
                but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
                644.a
                (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
                --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
                The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
                isogeny class 294.a,
                each with $4$ rational points.



                By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
                for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
                and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
                Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
                already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
                curve
                249.a.249.1,
                $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
                249.a.6723.1,
                $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
                counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
                $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
                277.a
                (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
                but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
                644.a
                (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
                --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
                The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
                isogeny class 294.a,
                each with $4$ rational points.



                By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
                for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
                and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
                Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 7 hours ago









                Noam D. ElkiesNoam D. Elkies

                57.6k11 gold badges203 silver badges288 bronze badges




                57.6k11 gold badges203 silver badges288 bronze badges






























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded
















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to MathOverflow!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid


                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f339224%2fcurves-with-isogenous-jacobians%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    ParseJSON using SSJSUsing AMPscript with SSJS ActivitiesHow to resubscribe a user in Marketing cloud using SSJS?Pulling Subscriber Status from Lists using SSJSRetrieving Emails using SSJSProblem in updating DE using SSJSUsing SSJS to send single email in Marketing CloudError adding EmailSendDefinition using SSJS

                    Кампала Садржај Географија Географија Историја Становништво Привреда Партнерски градови Референце Спољашње везе Мени за навигацију0°11′ СГШ; 32°20′ ИГД / 0.18° СГШ; 32.34° ИГД / 0.18; 32.340°11′ СГШ; 32°20′ ИГД / 0.18° СГШ; 32.34° ИГД / 0.18; 32.34МедијиПодациЗванични веб-сајту

                    19. јануар Садржај Догађаји Рођења Смрти Празници и дани сећања Види још Референце Мени за навигацијуу