Curves with isogenous JacobiansWhen is a product of elliptic curves isogenous to the Jacobian of a hyperelliptic curve?Line bundles on special abelian surfacesGeneral degree $d$ surface in $mathbbP^3$Can an ample class be written as a sum of two classes which are not even nef?Jacobians of genus 2 curves isogenous to a square of a supersingular elliptic curve over $mathbbF_p^2$Torsion free sheaves on reducible curvesHyperelliptic Jacobians with (or without) CMFinite etale covers of products of curves

Curves with isogenous Jacobians


When is a product of elliptic curves isogenous to the Jacobian of a hyperelliptic curve?Line bundles on special abelian surfacesGeneral degree $d$ surface in $mathbbP^3$Can an ample class be written as a sum of two classes which are not even nef?Jacobians of genus 2 curves isogenous to a square of a supersingular elliptic curve over $mathbbF_p^2$Torsion free sheaves on reducible curvesHyperelliptic Jacobians with (or without) CMFinite etale covers of products of curves













2












$begingroup$


Suppose that $C_1, C_2$ are two curves of genus $g geq 2$ defined over a number field $K$. Let $J_1, J_2$ respectively be their Jacobians. Suppose that $J_1, J_2$ are isogenous over $K$ and $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ are both non-empty, can $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ have different cardinalities?



For $g = 1$ and without the assumption that $C_i(K) ne emptyset$, the conclusion is obviously false. Take any elliptic curve $E$ over $mathbbQ$ of positive rank such that the $2$-Selmer group of $E$ is non-trivial, so that there is a genus one curve $C$ which represents a non-trivial $2$-Selmer element of $E$. Then $E$ is isomorphic to the Jacobian of $C$, and the Jacobian of $E$ is itself, so that $C,E$ have isogenous Jacobians but $E(mathbbQ)$ is by assumption infinite but $C(mathbbQ) = emptyset$.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$


















    2












    $begingroup$


    Suppose that $C_1, C_2$ are two curves of genus $g geq 2$ defined over a number field $K$. Let $J_1, J_2$ respectively be their Jacobians. Suppose that $J_1, J_2$ are isogenous over $K$ and $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ are both non-empty, can $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ have different cardinalities?



    For $g = 1$ and without the assumption that $C_i(K) ne emptyset$, the conclusion is obviously false. Take any elliptic curve $E$ over $mathbbQ$ of positive rank such that the $2$-Selmer group of $E$ is non-trivial, so that there is a genus one curve $C$ which represents a non-trivial $2$-Selmer element of $E$. Then $E$ is isomorphic to the Jacobian of $C$, and the Jacobian of $E$ is itself, so that $C,E$ have isogenous Jacobians but $E(mathbbQ)$ is by assumption infinite but $C(mathbbQ) = emptyset$.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$
















      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      Suppose that $C_1, C_2$ are two curves of genus $g geq 2$ defined over a number field $K$. Let $J_1, J_2$ respectively be their Jacobians. Suppose that $J_1, J_2$ are isogenous over $K$ and $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ are both non-empty, can $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ have different cardinalities?



      For $g = 1$ and without the assumption that $C_i(K) ne emptyset$, the conclusion is obviously false. Take any elliptic curve $E$ over $mathbbQ$ of positive rank such that the $2$-Selmer group of $E$ is non-trivial, so that there is a genus one curve $C$ which represents a non-trivial $2$-Selmer element of $E$. Then $E$ is isomorphic to the Jacobian of $C$, and the Jacobian of $E$ is itself, so that $C,E$ have isogenous Jacobians but $E(mathbbQ)$ is by assumption infinite but $C(mathbbQ) = emptyset$.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Suppose that $C_1, C_2$ are two curves of genus $g geq 2$ defined over a number field $K$. Let $J_1, J_2$ respectively be their Jacobians. Suppose that $J_1, J_2$ are isogenous over $K$ and $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ are both non-empty, can $C_1(K), C_2(K)$ have different cardinalities?



      For $g = 1$ and without the assumption that $C_i(K) ne emptyset$, the conclusion is obviously false. Take any elliptic curve $E$ over $mathbbQ$ of positive rank such that the $2$-Selmer group of $E$ is non-trivial, so that there is a genus one curve $C$ which represents a non-trivial $2$-Selmer element of $E$. Then $E$ is isomorphic to the Jacobian of $C$, and the Jacobian of $E$ is itself, so that $C,E$ have isogenous Jacobians but $E(mathbbQ)$ is by assumption infinite but $C(mathbbQ) = emptyset$.







      ag.algebraic-geometry arithmetic-geometry






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      asked 8 hours ago









      Stanley Yao XiaoStanley Yao Xiao

      9,1034 gold badges27 silver badges89 bronze badges




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          1 Answer
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          active

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          4













          $begingroup$

          Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
          already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
          curve
          249.a.249.1,
          $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
          249.a.6723.1,
          $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
          counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
          $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
          277.a
          (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
          but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
          644.a
          (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
          --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
          The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
          isogeny class 294.a,
          each with $4$ rational points.



          By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
          for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
          and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
          Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.






          share|cite|improve this answer









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            1 Answer
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            1 Answer
            1






            active

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            active

            oldest

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            4













            $begingroup$

            Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
            already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
            curve
            249.a.249.1,
            $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
            249.a.6723.1,
            $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
            counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
            $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
            277.a
            (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
            but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
            644.a
            (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
            --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
            The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
            isogeny class 294.a,
            each with $4$ rational points.



            By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
            for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
            and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
            Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



















              4













              $begingroup$

              Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
              already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
              curve
              249.a.249.1,
              $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
              249.a.6723.1,
              $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
              counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
              $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
              277.a
              (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
              but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
              644.a
              (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
              --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
              The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
              isogeny class 294.a,
              each with $4$ rational points.



              By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
              for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
              and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
              Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                4














                4










                4







                $begingroup$

                Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
                already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
                curve
                249.a.249.1,
                $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
                249.a.6723.1,
                $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
                counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
                $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
                277.a
                (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
                but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
                644.a
                (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
                --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
                The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
                isogeny class 294.a,
                each with $4$ rational points.



                By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
                for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
                and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
                Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Yes it is possible, already for $(K,g) = (bf Q,2)$, and
                already with the first example of isogenous $C_1,C_2$ listed in the LMFDB:
                curve
                249.a.249.1,
                $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = x^2 + x$, has one rational Weierstrass point, while curve
                249.a.6723.1,
                $y^2 + (x^3+1) y = -x^5 + x^3 + x^2 + 3x + 2$, has two, so the rational-point
                counts don't even have the same parity. (The counts are known to be
                $5$ and $6$ respectively.) Further examples are isogeny class
                277.a
                (two curves, each with a unique rational Weierstrass point,
                but the total counts are $1$ and $5$), and isogeny class
                644.a
                (two curves, one with two rational points, the other not solvable over $bf R$
                --- so this violates your assumption that each $C_i(K)$ is nonempty).
                The first example where the counts do agree is the two curves in
                isogeny class 294.a,
                each with $4$ rational points.



                By the way, for $g=1$ there are examples even with each $C_i(K)$ nonempty;
                for example, take $K=bf Q$, let $C_1$ be either $X_0(11)$ or $X_1(11)$,
                and let $C_2$ be the third elliptic curve of conductor $11$.
                Then $C_1$ has five rational points and $C_1$ has only one.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 7 hours ago









                Noam D. ElkiesNoam D. Elkies

                57.6k11 gold badges203 silver badges288 bronze badges




                57.6k11 gold badges203 silver badges288 bronze badges






























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