Why solving a differentiated integral equation might eventually lead to erroneous solutions of the original problem?Solving definite integral $int_R^r sqrtR^2-t^2dt$Is there a way to transform the following integral equation into a differential equation?Show that the integral equation has a solution on a suitable subset of $C[0,1]$Most direct way of calculating $int_0^B fracx^2 dxsqrtx^2 +A$?Searching for an elegant, high school level, technique for solving an integral by hand

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Why solving a differentiated integral equation might eventually lead to erroneous solutions of the original problem?


Solving definite integral $int_R^r sqrtR^2-t^2dt$Is there a way to transform the following integral equation into a differential equation?Show that the integral equation has a solution on a suitable subset of $C[0,1]$Most direct way of calculating $int_0^B fracx^2 dxsqrtx^2 +A$?Searching for an elegant, high school level, technique for solving an integral by hand






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








5












$begingroup$


Consider the following integral equation:
$$
int_0^r f(t) arcsin left( fractr right) , mathrmdt
+ fracpi2 int_r^R f(t) , mathrmd t = r , qquad
(0<r<R) , ,
$$

where $f(t)$ is the unknown function.
By differentiating both sides of this equation with respect to $r$, one obtains
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$

the solution of which can readily be obtained as
$$
f(t) = -1 , .
$$



However, upon substitution of this solution into the original integral equation above, one rather gets an additional $-pi R/2$ term on the left hand side.



i was wondering whether some math details are overlooked during this resolution. Any help would be highly appreciated.




An alternative resolution approach that leads to the desired solution is also most welcome.




Thank you










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




















    5












    $begingroup$


    Consider the following integral equation:
    $$
    int_0^r f(t) arcsin left( fractr right) , mathrmdt
    + fracpi2 int_r^R f(t) , mathrmd t = r , qquad
    (0<r<R) , ,
    $$

    where $f(t)$ is the unknown function.
    By differentiating both sides of this equation with respect to $r$, one obtains
    $$
    -frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
    $$

    the solution of which can readily be obtained as
    $$
    f(t) = -1 , .
    $$



    However, upon substitution of this solution into the original integral equation above, one rather gets an additional $-pi R/2$ term on the left hand side.



    i was wondering whether some math details are overlooked during this resolution. Any help would be highly appreciated.




    An alternative resolution approach that leads to the desired solution is also most welcome.




    Thank you










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$
















      5












      5








      5


      3



      $begingroup$


      Consider the following integral equation:
      $$
      int_0^r f(t) arcsin left( fractr right) , mathrmdt
      + fracpi2 int_r^R f(t) , mathrmd t = r , qquad
      (0<r<R) , ,
      $$

      where $f(t)$ is the unknown function.
      By differentiating both sides of this equation with respect to $r$, one obtains
      $$
      -frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
      $$

      the solution of which can readily be obtained as
      $$
      f(t) = -1 , .
      $$



      However, upon substitution of this solution into the original integral equation above, one rather gets an additional $-pi R/2$ term on the left hand side.



      i was wondering whether some math details are overlooked during this resolution. Any help would be highly appreciated.




      An alternative resolution approach that leads to the desired solution is also most welcome.




      Thank you










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Consider the following integral equation:
      $$
      int_0^r f(t) arcsin left( fractr right) , mathrmdt
      + fracpi2 int_r^R f(t) , mathrmd t = r , qquad
      (0<r<R) , ,
      $$

      where $f(t)$ is the unknown function.
      By differentiating both sides of this equation with respect to $r$, one obtains
      $$
      -frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
      $$

      the solution of which can readily be obtained as
      $$
      f(t) = -1 , .
      $$



      However, upon substitution of this solution into the original integral equation above, one rather gets an additional $-pi R/2$ term on the left hand side.



      i was wondering whether some math details are overlooked during this resolution. Any help would be highly appreciated.




      An alternative resolution approach that leads to the desired solution is also most welcome.




      Thank you







      real-analysis integration analysis definite-integrals integral-equations






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 4 hours ago









      ComplexYetTrivial

      5,5682 gold badges7 silver badges35 bronze badges




      5,5682 gold badges7 silver badges35 bronze badges










      asked 9 hours ago









      VolterraVolterra

      1605 silver badges21 bronze badges




      1605 silver badges21 bronze badges























          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          5














          $begingroup$

          The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below



          $$
          -frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
          $$



          For example,



          $$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.



          Edit:



          Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have



          $$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$



          or,



          $$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$



          and the solution is



          $$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$














          • $begingroup$
            Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
            $endgroup$
            – Volterra
            8 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Quanto
            6 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
            $endgroup$
            – ComplexYetTrivial
            4 hours ago


















          1














          $begingroup$

          Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
          $$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
          This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$

















            Your Answer








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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            5














            $begingroup$

            The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below



            $$
            -frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
            $$



            For example,



            $$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.



            Edit:



            Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have



            $$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$



            or,



            $$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$



            and the solution is



            $$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$














            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
              $endgroup$
              – Volterra
              8 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Quanto
              6 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
              $endgroup$
              – ComplexYetTrivial
              4 hours ago















            5














            $begingroup$

            The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below



            $$
            -frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
            $$



            For example,



            $$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.



            Edit:



            Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have



            $$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$



            or,



            $$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$



            and the solution is



            $$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$














            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
              $endgroup$
              – Volterra
              8 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Quanto
              6 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
              $endgroup$
              – ComplexYetTrivial
              4 hours ago













            5














            5










            5







            $begingroup$

            The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below



            $$
            -frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
            $$



            For example,



            $$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.



            Edit:



            Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have



            $$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$



            or,



            $$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$



            and the solution is



            $$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below



            $$
            -frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
            $$



            For example,



            $$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.



            Edit:



            Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have



            $$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$



            or,



            $$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$



            and the solution is



            $$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited 6 hours ago

























            answered 8 hours ago









            QuantoQuanto

            5,1052 silver badges15 bronze badges




            5,1052 silver badges15 bronze badges














            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
              $endgroup$
              – Volterra
              8 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Quanto
              6 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
              $endgroup$
              – ComplexYetTrivial
              4 hours ago
















            • $begingroup$
              Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
              $endgroup$
              – Volterra
              8 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Quanto
              6 hours ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
              $endgroup$
              – ComplexYetTrivial
              4 hours ago















            $begingroup$
            Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
            $endgroup$
            – Volterra
            8 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
            $endgroup$
            – Volterra
            8 hours ago




            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            @Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Quanto
            6 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Quanto
            6 hours ago




            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
            $endgroup$
            – ComplexYetTrivial
            4 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
            $endgroup$
            – ComplexYetTrivial
            4 hours ago













            1














            $begingroup$

            Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
            $$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
            This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



















              1














              $begingroup$

              Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
              $$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
              This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                1














                1










                1







                $begingroup$

                Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
                $$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
                This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
                $$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
                This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered 5 hours ago









                ComplexYetTrivialComplexYetTrivial

                5,5682 gold badges7 silver badges35 bronze badges




                5,5682 gold badges7 silver badges35 bronze badges































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