Why solving a differentiated integral equation might eventually lead to erroneous solutions of the original problem?Solving definite integral $int_R^r sqrtR^2-t^2dt$Is there a way to transform the following integral equation into a differential equation?Show that the integral equation has a solution on a suitable subset of $C[0,1]$Most direct way of calculating $int_0^B fracx^2 dxsqrtx^2 +A$?Searching for an elegant, high school level, technique for solving an integral by hand
Fuel sender works when outside of tank, but not when in tank
practicality of 30 year fix mortgage at 55 years of age
Is it a good idea to leave minor world details to the reader's imagination?
Difference between types of yeast
Why did UK NHS pay for homeopathic treatments?
I am 15 years old and do not go to a Yeshiva but would like to learn Talmud. A few rabbis near me said they could teach me. How should I start
Is there any relation/leak between two sections of LM358 op-amp?
How to deal with a Homophobic PC
Lost Update Understanding
Suffocation while cooking under an umbrella?
What is the difference between an astronaut in the ISS and a freediver in perfect neutral buoyancy?
Can an integer optimization problem be convex?
Reorder a matrix, twice
List of 1000 most common words across all languages
How to justify a team increase when the team is doing good?
Tesla coil and Tesla tower
My Project Manager does not accept carry-over in Scrum, Is that normal?
Is it allowed to buy a Probe Bahncard 50 repeatedly?
How can this Stack Exchange site have an animated favicon?
Quick Yajilin Puzzles: Scatter and Gather
Do wheelchair aircraft exist?
Can anyone put a name to this Circle of Fifths observation?
Is it impolite to ask for halal food when traveling to and in Thailand?
Does the Prepare Food ability from Cook's Utensils stack?
Why solving a differentiated integral equation might eventually lead to erroneous solutions of the original problem?
Solving definite integral $int_R^r sqrtR^2-t^2dt$Is there a way to transform the following integral equation into a differential equation?Show that the integral equation has a solution on a suitable subset of $C[0,1]$Most direct way of calculating $int_0^B fracx^2 dxsqrtx^2 +A$?Searching for an elegant, high school level, technique for solving an integral by hand
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
$begingroup$
Consider the following integral equation:
$$
int_0^r f(t) arcsin left( fractr right) , mathrmdt
+ fracpi2 int_r^R f(t) , mathrmd t = r , qquad
(0<r<R) , ,
$$
where $f(t)$ is the unknown function.
By differentiating both sides of this equation with respect to $r$, one obtains
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
the solution of which can readily be obtained as
$$
f(t) = -1 , .
$$
However, upon substitution of this solution into the original integral equation above, one rather gets an additional $-pi R/2$ term on the left hand side.
i was wondering whether some math details are overlooked during this resolution. Any help would be highly appreciated.
An alternative resolution approach that leads to the desired solution is also most welcome.
Thank you
real-analysis integration analysis definite-integrals integral-equations
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Consider the following integral equation:
$$
int_0^r f(t) arcsin left( fractr right) , mathrmdt
+ fracpi2 int_r^R f(t) , mathrmd t = r , qquad
(0<r<R) , ,
$$
where $f(t)$ is the unknown function.
By differentiating both sides of this equation with respect to $r$, one obtains
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
the solution of which can readily be obtained as
$$
f(t) = -1 , .
$$
However, upon substitution of this solution into the original integral equation above, one rather gets an additional $-pi R/2$ term on the left hand side.
i was wondering whether some math details are overlooked during this resolution. Any help would be highly appreciated.
An alternative resolution approach that leads to the desired solution is also most welcome.
Thank you
real-analysis integration analysis definite-integrals integral-equations
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Consider the following integral equation:
$$
int_0^r f(t) arcsin left( fractr right) , mathrmdt
+ fracpi2 int_r^R f(t) , mathrmd t = r , qquad
(0<r<R) , ,
$$
where $f(t)$ is the unknown function.
By differentiating both sides of this equation with respect to $r$, one obtains
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
the solution of which can readily be obtained as
$$
f(t) = -1 , .
$$
However, upon substitution of this solution into the original integral equation above, one rather gets an additional $-pi R/2$ term on the left hand side.
i was wondering whether some math details are overlooked during this resolution. Any help would be highly appreciated.
An alternative resolution approach that leads to the desired solution is also most welcome.
Thank you
real-analysis integration analysis definite-integrals integral-equations
$endgroup$
Consider the following integral equation:
$$
int_0^r f(t) arcsin left( fractr right) , mathrmdt
+ fracpi2 int_r^R f(t) , mathrmd t = r , qquad
(0<r<R) , ,
$$
where $f(t)$ is the unknown function.
By differentiating both sides of this equation with respect to $r$, one obtains
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
the solution of which can readily be obtained as
$$
f(t) = -1 , .
$$
However, upon substitution of this solution into the original integral equation above, one rather gets an additional $-pi R/2$ term on the left hand side.
i was wondering whether some math details are overlooked during this resolution. Any help would be highly appreciated.
An alternative resolution approach that leads to the desired solution is also most welcome.
Thank you
real-analysis integration analysis definite-integrals integral-equations
real-analysis integration analysis definite-integrals integral-equations
edited 4 hours ago
ComplexYetTrivial
5,5682 gold badges7 silver badges35 bronze badges
5,5682 gold badges7 silver badges35 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
VolterraVolterra
1605 silver badges21 bronze badges
1605 silver badges21 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
For example,
$$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.
Edit:
Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have
$$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$
or,
$$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$
and the solution is
$$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
$endgroup$
– Volterra
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
$endgroup$
– Quanto
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
$endgroup$
– ComplexYetTrivial
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
$$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3364483%2fwhy-solving-a-differentiated-integral-equation-might-eventually-lead-to-erroneou%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
For example,
$$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.
Edit:
Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have
$$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$
or,
$$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$
and the solution is
$$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
$endgroup$
– Volterra
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
$endgroup$
– Quanto
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
$endgroup$
– ComplexYetTrivial
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
For example,
$$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.
Edit:
Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have
$$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$
or,
$$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$
and the solution is
$$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
$endgroup$
– Volterra
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
$endgroup$
– Quanto
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
$endgroup$
– ComplexYetTrivial
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
For example,
$$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.
Edit:
Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have
$$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$
or,
$$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$
and the solution is
$$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$
$endgroup$
The problem is that $f(t) =-1$ is not the unique solution of the integral equation below
$$
-frac1r int_0^r fracf(t)t , mathrmdtsqrtr^2-t^2 = 1 , ,
$$
For example,
$$ f(t) =- frac 2r sqrtr^2-t^2$$ would be another valid solution. In fact, there are numerous number of functions $f(t)$ that satisfy the integral equation above.
Edit:
Similarly, the original integral also admits multiple solutions. One particular solution is to assume that $f(t)=a$ is a flat function, where $a$ is a constant. Then, we have
$$aint_0^r arcsinleft( frac tr right)dt +a fracpi2(R-r)=r$$
or,
$$aleft[ left( frac pi2 -1 right)r+ fracpi2(R-r)right]=r$$
and the solution is
$$f(t)=a= frac1 fracpi2frac Rr -1$$
edited 6 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
QuantoQuanto
5,1052 silver badges15 bronze badges
5,1052 silver badges15 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
$endgroup$
– Volterra
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
$endgroup$
– Quanto
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
$endgroup$
– ComplexYetTrivial
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
$endgroup$
– Volterra
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
$endgroup$
– Quanto
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
$endgroup$
– ComplexYetTrivial
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
$endgroup$
– Volterra
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks for the answer. Your solution does not seem to be defined for the second term on the left hand side of the original equation since $t>r$. Yet, again, the original problem is not solved using your $f(t)$
$endgroup$
– Volterra
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
$endgroup$
– Quanto
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Volterra - you’re right. For an alternative approach, I provided one particular solution in the answer.
$endgroup$
– Quanto
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
$endgroup$
– ComplexYetTrivial
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Note that $r$ is not a constant but a variable here, so it cannot be used in the definition of $f$.
$endgroup$
– ComplexYetTrivial
4 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
$$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
$$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
$$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).
$endgroup$
Your derivation seems perfectly fine to me. Letting $s = t^2$ and $u = r^2$ you can rewrite the second integral equation as
$$ int limits_0^u fracf(sqrts)sqrtu - s , mathrmd s = - 2 sqrtu , , , u in [0,R^2] . $$
This is an Abel integral equation, which admits a unique solution (note that the right-hand side is absolutely continuous). The formula yields $f(t) = -1$ for $t in [0,R]$ in agreement with your result. Therefore, the only possible solution to your original equation is $f equiv -1$. Since this leads to a contradiction, we conclude that it simply does not have a solution at all. This is not uncommon for such integral equations (Fredholm equations of the first kind).
answered 5 hours ago
ComplexYetTrivialComplexYetTrivial
5,5682 gold badges7 silver badges35 bronze badges
5,5682 gold badges7 silver badges35 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3364483%2fwhy-solving-a-differentiated-integral-equation-might-eventually-lead-to-erroneou%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown