Can a fight scene, component-wise, be too complex and complicated?Sympathetic portrayal of devout, rule-abiding charactersCan a scene be written to be disorienting and not be too confusing to readers?How could a paragon character be an antagonist?How to handle a character's failure?When Choosing Labels/titles for Characters instead of their namesWhat can a fight scene prove about characters?How can I make my anti-heroic protagonist more likable?How do I make my character be a part of something without it seeming forced?Would this character be classified as an antivillain, antihero, or something else entirely?

During the Space Shuttle Columbia Disaster of 2003, Why Did The Flight Director Say, "Lock the doors."?

How should an administrative assistant reply to student addressing them as "Professor" or "Doctor"?

Are any jet engines used in combat aircraft water cooled?

Am I overreacting to my team leader's unethical requests?

changing number of arguments to a function in secondary evaluation

Does two puncture wounds mean venomous snake?

How to mark beverage cans in a cooler for a blind person?

Was the 2019 Lion King film made through motion capture?

Was this a rapid SCHEDULED disassembly? How was it done?

Y2K... in 2019?

Do other countries guarantee freedoms that the United States does not have?

Buffering in WGS 84 / Pseudo-Mercator 3857 using QGIS?

Why do oscilloscopes use SMPS instead of linear power supply?

Is it incorrect to write "I rate this book a 3 out of 4 stars?"

How does The Fools Guild make its money?

What word can be used to describe a bug in a movie?

Visa National - No Exit Stamp From France on Return to the UK

Are there any financial disadvantages to living significantly "below your means"?

Performance of a branch and bound algorithm VS branch-cut-heuristics

Is it really ~648.69 km/s delta-v to "land" on the surface of the Sun?

What does Apple mean by "This may decrease battery life"?

Could one become a successful researcher by writing some really good papers while being outside academia?

Does this Foo machine halt?

Why does Intel's Haswell chip allow FP multiplication to be twice as fast as addition?



Can a fight scene, component-wise, be too complex and complicated?


Sympathetic portrayal of devout, rule-abiding charactersCan a scene be written to be disorienting and not be too confusing to readers?How could a paragon character be an antagonist?How to handle a character's failure?When Choosing Labels/titles for Characters instead of their namesWhat can a fight scene prove about characters?How can I make my anti-heroic protagonist more likable?How do I make my character be a part of something without it seeming forced?Would this character be classified as an antivillain, antihero, or something else entirely?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








3















Okay, there is some preliminary information for you to be able to answer this question: There is a sword of great power, a McGuffin, and a destined one who wields it. The destined one has two companions. These three we'll call Gang 1, for simplicity.



Then you have the King's Guard, who want to retrieve the sword (it was stolen from the treasury). But also, the leader of the King's Guard wants revenge on one of the members in Gang 1. We'll call these people Gang 2.



Then there is this crime boss, who also wants the sword, for power. Him and his men we'll call Gang 3. He also has a bit of a grudge to someone in Gang 1.



Then we have another crime boss, though he is of a prominent crime family, and he sends his sons on this mission. This is Gang 4, and he is in a feud with Gang 3. Also, one of his sons are one of the destined one's companions. So, his sons want to not only take the sword, for power, but they also want to retrieve the son in Gang 1.



Then you have the destroyer, who has hired a crew, so he can destroy the sword, both due to conviction but also personal motives. He and his crew is Gang 5.



Within Gang 5 is someone who is a bit more educated, and therefore knows the power of the sword, and therefore decides he doesn't want it destroyed, but rather in his hands. So, he stages a mutiny within Gang 5, which will be Gang 6. He also has personal motives involved in this, as he wants to fill his fathers shoes of being a captain (this all happens at sea, like a big ship battle, boarding, fighting, etc.)



Then you have the captain of the boat Gang 1 is travelling with. He sails for a travelling company taking people from one dock to an island, and then further from that island to two different countries. But he takes his job very seriously. His motto is "I always get my passengers to their destination". He and his crew is kind of Gang 1, but also kind of another gang, Gang 7. Whatever, it is for you to decide.



Then you have the knight, who is wanted and has been through hell. He knows the destined one, and is kind of a failed mentor to him. He was supposed to guide him on his quest, but they were separated. Now he is coming back to help him. Despite being one man, we will refer to him as Gang 8.



Then you have the renowned, super-skilled bounty hunter, who is coming to retrieve the wanted Knight, or Gang 8. We will refer to him as Gang 9.



And finally, we have a powerful being who guards the mortal realm. There is a threat to the mortal realm, an invading God, which is why Gang 1 stole the sword to begin with. But the destined one within Gang 1 is merely a child, and the powerful being believes the sword is better in his hands, as he is a more capable fighter. We will refer to him as Gang 10.



And that's everyone. I am a big fan of Lock stock and two smoking barrels, and the way those kinds of narratives play out, when all the subplots, with all their unrelated characters, meet in a messy, complex confrontation. But I'm wondering, can this kind of stuff be too complex? Too complicated? Too disorienting?



Just so it is clear, all these characters have had sufficient time to have their stories told and their motives made clear.










share|improve this question
























  • When you say "fight scene" in the title, are you saying that your story has a fight scene with all ten of these groups all fighting one another?

    – F1Krazy
    7 hours ago











  • @F1Krazy Kinda, they're respectively fighting each other, if that makes sense. There's also a lot of talking, and the fighting at times stop when another component is added to the mix, like the characters getting their bearings (and in-turn, the reader).

    – A. Kvåle
    7 hours ago


















3















Okay, there is some preliminary information for you to be able to answer this question: There is a sword of great power, a McGuffin, and a destined one who wields it. The destined one has two companions. These three we'll call Gang 1, for simplicity.



Then you have the King's Guard, who want to retrieve the sword (it was stolen from the treasury). But also, the leader of the King's Guard wants revenge on one of the members in Gang 1. We'll call these people Gang 2.



Then there is this crime boss, who also wants the sword, for power. Him and his men we'll call Gang 3. He also has a bit of a grudge to someone in Gang 1.



Then we have another crime boss, though he is of a prominent crime family, and he sends his sons on this mission. This is Gang 4, and he is in a feud with Gang 3. Also, one of his sons are one of the destined one's companions. So, his sons want to not only take the sword, for power, but they also want to retrieve the son in Gang 1.



Then you have the destroyer, who has hired a crew, so he can destroy the sword, both due to conviction but also personal motives. He and his crew is Gang 5.



Within Gang 5 is someone who is a bit more educated, and therefore knows the power of the sword, and therefore decides he doesn't want it destroyed, but rather in his hands. So, he stages a mutiny within Gang 5, which will be Gang 6. He also has personal motives involved in this, as he wants to fill his fathers shoes of being a captain (this all happens at sea, like a big ship battle, boarding, fighting, etc.)



Then you have the captain of the boat Gang 1 is travelling with. He sails for a travelling company taking people from one dock to an island, and then further from that island to two different countries. But he takes his job very seriously. His motto is "I always get my passengers to their destination". He and his crew is kind of Gang 1, but also kind of another gang, Gang 7. Whatever, it is for you to decide.



Then you have the knight, who is wanted and has been through hell. He knows the destined one, and is kind of a failed mentor to him. He was supposed to guide him on his quest, but they were separated. Now he is coming back to help him. Despite being one man, we will refer to him as Gang 8.



Then you have the renowned, super-skilled bounty hunter, who is coming to retrieve the wanted Knight, or Gang 8. We will refer to him as Gang 9.



And finally, we have a powerful being who guards the mortal realm. There is a threat to the mortal realm, an invading God, which is why Gang 1 stole the sword to begin with. But the destined one within Gang 1 is merely a child, and the powerful being believes the sword is better in his hands, as he is a more capable fighter. We will refer to him as Gang 10.



And that's everyone. I am a big fan of Lock stock and two smoking barrels, and the way those kinds of narratives play out, when all the subplots, with all their unrelated characters, meet in a messy, complex confrontation. But I'm wondering, can this kind of stuff be too complex? Too complicated? Too disorienting?



Just so it is clear, all these characters have had sufficient time to have their stories told and their motives made clear.










share|improve this question
























  • When you say "fight scene" in the title, are you saying that your story has a fight scene with all ten of these groups all fighting one another?

    – F1Krazy
    7 hours ago











  • @F1Krazy Kinda, they're respectively fighting each other, if that makes sense. There's also a lot of talking, and the fighting at times stop when another component is added to the mix, like the characters getting their bearings (and in-turn, the reader).

    – A. Kvåle
    7 hours ago














3












3








3








Okay, there is some preliminary information for you to be able to answer this question: There is a sword of great power, a McGuffin, and a destined one who wields it. The destined one has two companions. These three we'll call Gang 1, for simplicity.



Then you have the King's Guard, who want to retrieve the sword (it was stolen from the treasury). But also, the leader of the King's Guard wants revenge on one of the members in Gang 1. We'll call these people Gang 2.



Then there is this crime boss, who also wants the sword, for power. Him and his men we'll call Gang 3. He also has a bit of a grudge to someone in Gang 1.



Then we have another crime boss, though he is of a prominent crime family, and he sends his sons on this mission. This is Gang 4, and he is in a feud with Gang 3. Also, one of his sons are one of the destined one's companions. So, his sons want to not only take the sword, for power, but they also want to retrieve the son in Gang 1.



Then you have the destroyer, who has hired a crew, so he can destroy the sword, both due to conviction but also personal motives. He and his crew is Gang 5.



Within Gang 5 is someone who is a bit more educated, and therefore knows the power of the sword, and therefore decides he doesn't want it destroyed, but rather in his hands. So, he stages a mutiny within Gang 5, which will be Gang 6. He also has personal motives involved in this, as he wants to fill his fathers shoes of being a captain (this all happens at sea, like a big ship battle, boarding, fighting, etc.)



Then you have the captain of the boat Gang 1 is travelling with. He sails for a travelling company taking people from one dock to an island, and then further from that island to two different countries. But he takes his job very seriously. His motto is "I always get my passengers to their destination". He and his crew is kind of Gang 1, but also kind of another gang, Gang 7. Whatever, it is for you to decide.



Then you have the knight, who is wanted and has been through hell. He knows the destined one, and is kind of a failed mentor to him. He was supposed to guide him on his quest, but they were separated. Now he is coming back to help him. Despite being one man, we will refer to him as Gang 8.



Then you have the renowned, super-skilled bounty hunter, who is coming to retrieve the wanted Knight, or Gang 8. We will refer to him as Gang 9.



And finally, we have a powerful being who guards the mortal realm. There is a threat to the mortal realm, an invading God, which is why Gang 1 stole the sword to begin with. But the destined one within Gang 1 is merely a child, and the powerful being believes the sword is better in his hands, as he is a more capable fighter. We will refer to him as Gang 10.



And that's everyone. I am a big fan of Lock stock and two smoking barrels, and the way those kinds of narratives play out, when all the subplots, with all their unrelated characters, meet in a messy, complex confrontation. But I'm wondering, can this kind of stuff be too complex? Too complicated? Too disorienting?



Just so it is clear, all these characters have had sufficient time to have their stories told and their motives made clear.










share|improve this question














Okay, there is some preliminary information for you to be able to answer this question: There is a sword of great power, a McGuffin, and a destined one who wields it. The destined one has two companions. These three we'll call Gang 1, for simplicity.



Then you have the King's Guard, who want to retrieve the sword (it was stolen from the treasury). But also, the leader of the King's Guard wants revenge on one of the members in Gang 1. We'll call these people Gang 2.



Then there is this crime boss, who also wants the sword, for power. Him and his men we'll call Gang 3. He also has a bit of a grudge to someone in Gang 1.



Then we have another crime boss, though he is of a prominent crime family, and he sends his sons on this mission. This is Gang 4, and he is in a feud with Gang 3. Also, one of his sons are one of the destined one's companions. So, his sons want to not only take the sword, for power, but they also want to retrieve the son in Gang 1.



Then you have the destroyer, who has hired a crew, so he can destroy the sword, both due to conviction but also personal motives. He and his crew is Gang 5.



Within Gang 5 is someone who is a bit more educated, and therefore knows the power of the sword, and therefore decides he doesn't want it destroyed, but rather in his hands. So, he stages a mutiny within Gang 5, which will be Gang 6. He also has personal motives involved in this, as he wants to fill his fathers shoes of being a captain (this all happens at sea, like a big ship battle, boarding, fighting, etc.)



Then you have the captain of the boat Gang 1 is travelling with. He sails for a travelling company taking people from one dock to an island, and then further from that island to two different countries. But he takes his job very seriously. His motto is "I always get my passengers to their destination". He and his crew is kind of Gang 1, but also kind of another gang, Gang 7. Whatever, it is for you to decide.



Then you have the knight, who is wanted and has been through hell. He knows the destined one, and is kind of a failed mentor to him. He was supposed to guide him on his quest, but they were separated. Now he is coming back to help him. Despite being one man, we will refer to him as Gang 8.



Then you have the renowned, super-skilled bounty hunter, who is coming to retrieve the wanted Knight, or Gang 8. We will refer to him as Gang 9.



And finally, we have a powerful being who guards the mortal realm. There is a threat to the mortal realm, an invading God, which is why Gang 1 stole the sword to begin with. But the destined one within Gang 1 is merely a child, and the powerful being believes the sword is better in his hands, as he is a more capable fighter. We will refer to him as Gang 10.



And that's everyone. I am a big fan of Lock stock and two smoking barrels, and the way those kinds of narratives play out, when all the subplots, with all their unrelated characters, meet in a messy, complex confrontation. But I'm wondering, can this kind of stuff be too complex? Too complicated? Too disorienting?



Just so it is clear, all these characters have had sufficient time to have their stories told and their motives made clear.







characters antagonist subplot combat motivation






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









A. KvåleA. Kvåle

1,86214 silver badges41 bronze badges




1,86214 silver badges41 bronze badges















  • When you say "fight scene" in the title, are you saying that your story has a fight scene with all ten of these groups all fighting one another?

    – F1Krazy
    7 hours ago











  • @F1Krazy Kinda, they're respectively fighting each other, if that makes sense. There's also a lot of talking, and the fighting at times stop when another component is added to the mix, like the characters getting their bearings (and in-turn, the reader).

    – A. Kvåle
    7 hours ago


















  • When you say "fight scene" in the title, are you saying that your story has a fight scene with all ten of these groups all fighting one another?

    – F1Krazy
    7 hours ago











  • @F1Krazy Kinda, they're respectively fighting each other, if that makes sense. There's also a lot of talking, and the fighting at times stop when another component is added to the mix, like the characters getting their bearings (and in-turn, the reader).

    – A. Kvåle
    7 hours ago

















When you say "fight scene" in the title, are you saying that your story has a fight scene with all ten of these groups all fighting one another?

– F1Krazy
7 hours ago





When you say "fight scene" in the title, are you saying that your story has a fight scene with all ten of these groups all fighting one another?

– F1Krazy
7 hours ago













@F1Krazy Kinda, they're respectively fighting each other, if that makes sense. There's also a lot of talking, and the fighting at times stop when another component is added to the mix, like the characters getting their bearings (and in-turn, the reader).

– A. Kvåle
7 hours ago






@F1Krazy Kinda, they're respectively fighting each other, if that makes sense. There's also a lot of talking, and the fighting at times stop when another component is added to the mix, like the characters getting their bearings (and in-turn, the reader).

– A. Kvåle
7 hours ago











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2














It really depends on how you write it, how important all the components are, and if you can construct a consistent narrative journeying through the story.



Think back to all the big budget movies you've seen where there are giant armies and dozens of characters fighting on screen. The scenes are usually chaotic with lots of things happening at the same time, and in many cases it's just too hard to follow. But some of them work out well because they focus on specific narratives at a time, and use the rest of the battle as a backdrop. For example, in the battle of Helm's Deep, we spend a lot of time following the characters we know, witnessing things through their eyes, and it's okay if we don't see everything in the fight because we're focused on the parts that are important.



In written text, it can be a little more challenging because you can't show simultaneous action well, so there's a big risk that you end up with a muddled and confusing mess. But it's not impossible.



The Wheel of Time had an epic fate-of-the-world battle, "The Last Battle", where all the characters in the 14-book series got together in a last desperate struggle. In this fight, seventeen factions of light take on seven groups of shadow, and each force's story is told from the perspective of one or more characters associated with that group - the characters readers have followed along throughout the series. All the character stories and plot threads are given space for resolution, and the battle chapter clocks in at a massive 81,000 words, more than the entire first Harry Potter novel!



You don't have nearly so many individuals and probably won't need 273 pages for your battle, but some of the things that worked for Robert Jordan may work for your case.



It sounds like you have multiple point-of-view characters you've been building up through your story. Your battle is large enough, you can tell different parts of the battle through the lens of your major characters. Break it down into the individual narratives and you can relay it like a sequence of events taking place as part of the overall conflict. Similar to how you've broken it down in your question, you can start with a few groups and their skirmish, and then have the next group show up, and the next, and the next as things spiral into chaos.



But also take care to keep the narrative scope small enough so that it doesn't become overwhelming. If Gang 1 manages to escape from Gang 2 for a while, Gang 2 can temporarily drop out of the narrative while Gang 1 encounters another gang until it's time for Gang 2 to resurface again.



Just like in the movies, if you have too many characters on screen at the same time, then the individual actions of each get lost in the shuffle. If you can keep the focus on a few characters at any given time - say, a half-dozen or so - it'll be easier to follow along.






share|improve this answer
































    2














    Let's take a look at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in the Lord of the Rings:



    First, we have the Rohirrim. Among them are Theoden, Éowyn, Éomer and Merry. Then we have Minas Tirith, with its various forces, and with Gandalf and Pippin as focal point characters. There's the events inside the city with Denethor, and there's Imrahil outside. In the middle of the fray, Aragorn arrives with Legolas and Gimli. And of course there's Mordor's army. So, similar to your example, multiple characters and multiple storylines converging on one battle.



    What are we presented with? A confusing whirlwind, within which first one event than another is highlighted. We have no trouble following our multitude of main characters: each small scene is clear, and they are presented in sequence. But once we lose sight of a character, we do not know where within the tumult of battle he will reemerge. And the full account of the battle is explicitly not given:




    for it was a great battle and the full count of it no tale has told.
    J.R.R. Tolkien, Lord of the Rings Book V, chapter 6 - The Battle of the Pelennor Fields




    This is done deliberately. Tolkien took part in the Battle of the Somme, he knew that a battle is just too big, too confusing, you can't see all of it.



    What does this example mean for your situation?



    You have a lot going on. You want all of it to converge on one battle. But the fact is your "camera" can only focus on one mini-scene at a time. So you would need to break "what is happening" into small scenes you want to show, and show them in sequence. A lot can be happening off-screen while that one thing is going on on-screen.



    If you try to show everything all at the same time, this will indeed be too confusing. A narrative is sequential by its nature.



    But, you may well say, there is more than one thing happening all at the same time. True, but then you will need to figure out which one you show, and which one you only show the effects of.



    You will also need to consider pacing: if the situation is supposed to be tense, you don't want everything to stall because you're trying to tell too many things at the same time. You want every small scene to contribute to a larger shape of things.



    Figure out in what order things are happening, in what order you wish to present them (something might have happened, which your POV characters only find out later), how it all resolves itself. Then, write every small scene and let it play out: while this is the event you're highlighting, it is an island in the stormy sea, it is the one thing that's Happening. No distractions.



    So, to sum up, you can have a lot of storylines converge into one massive event. This can be very cathartic when well-written. But making that situation well-written - that is a significant challenge. It would require considerable mental storyboarding.






    share|improve this answer



























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "166"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );













      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f47254%2fcan-a-fight-scene-component-wise-be-too-complex-and-complicated%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      2














      It really depends on how you write it, how important all the components are, and if you can construct a consistent narrative journeying through the story.



      Think back to all the big budget movies you've seen where there are giant armies and dozens of characters fighting on screen. The scenes are usually chaotic with lots of things happening at the same time, and in many cases it's just too hard to follow. But some of them work out well because they focus on specific narratives at a time, and use the rest of the battle as a backdrop. For example, in the battle of Helm's Deep, we spend a lot of time following the characters we know, witnessing things through their eyes, and it's okay if we don't see everything in the fight because we're focused on the parts that are important.



      In written text, it can be a little more challenging because you can't show simultaneous action well, so there's a big risk that you end up with a muddled and confusing mess. But it's not impossible.



      The Wheel of Time had an epic fate-of-the-world battle, "The Last Battle", where all the characters in the 14-book series got together in a last desperate struggle. In this fight, seventeen factions of light take on seven groups of shadow, and each force's story is told from the perspective of one or more characters associated with that group - the characters readers have followed along throughout the series. All the character stories and plot threads are given space for resolution, and the battle chapter clocks in at a massive 81,000 words, more than the entire first Harry Potter novel!



      You don't have nearly so many individuals and probably won't need 273 pages for your battle, but some of the things that worked for Robert Jordan may work for your case.



      It sounds like you have multiple point-of-view characters you've been building up through your story. Your battle is large enough, you can tell different parts of the battle through the lens of your major characters. Break it down into the individual narratives and you can relay it like a sequence of events taking place as part of the overall conflict. Similar to how you've broken it down in your question, you can start with a few groups and their skirmish, and then have the next group show up, and the next, and the next as things spiral into chaos.



      But also take care to keep the narrative scope small enough so that it doesn't become overwhelming. If Gang 1 manages to escape from Gang 2 for a while, Gang 2 can temporarily drop out of the narrative while Gang 1 encounters another gang until it's time for Gang 2 to resurface again.



      Just like in the movies, if you have too many characters on screen at the same time, then the individual actions of each get lost in the shuffle. If you can keep the focus on a few characters at any given time - say, a half-dozen or so - it'll be easier to follow along.






      share|improve this answer





























        2














        It really depends on how you write it, how important all the components are, and if you can construct a consistent narrative journeying through the story.



        Think back to all the big budget movies you've seen where there are giant armies and dozens of characters fighting on screen. The scenes are usually chaotic with lots of things happening at the same time, and in many cases it's just too hard to follow. But some of them work out well because they focus on specific narratives at a time, and use the rest of the battle as a backdrop. For example, in the battle of Helm's Deep, we spend a lot of time following the characters we know, witnessing things through their eyes, and it's okay if we don't see everything in the fight because we're focused on the parts that are important.



        In written text, it can be a little more challenging because you can't show simultaneous action well, so there's a big risk that you end up with a muddled and confusing mess. But it's not impossible.



        The Wheel of Time had an epic fate-of-the-world battle, "The Last Battle", where all the characters in the 14-book series got together in a last desperate struggle. In this fight, seventeen factions of light take on seven groups of shadow, and each force's story is told from the perspective of one or more characters associated with that group - the characters readers have followed along throughout the series. All the character stories and plot threads are given space for resolution, and the battle chapter clocks in at a massive 81,000 words, more than the entire first Harry Potter novel!



        You don't have nearly so many individuals and probably won't need 273 pages for your battle, but some of the things that worked for Robert Jordan may work for your case.



        It sounds like you have multiple point-of-view characters you've been building up through your story. Your battle is large enough, you can tell different parts of the battle through the lens of your major characters. Break it down into the individual narratives and you can relay it like a sequence of events taking place as part of the overall conflict. Similar to how you've broken it down in your question, you can start with a few groups and their skirmish, and then have the next group show up, and the next, and the next as things spiral into chaos.



        But also take care to keep the narrative scope small enough so that it doesn't become overwhelming. If Gang 1 manages to escape from Gang 2 for a while, Gang 2 can temporarily drop out of the narrative while Gang 1 encounters another gang until it's time for Gang 2 to resurface again.



        Just like in the movies, if you have too many characters on screen at the same time, then the individual actions of each get lost in the shuffle. If you can keep the focus on a few characters at any given time - say, a half-dozen or so - it'll be easier to follow along.






        share|improve this answer



























          2












          2








          2







          It really depends on how you write it, how important all the components are, and if you can construct a consistent narrative journeying through the story.



          Think back to all the big budget movies you've seen where there are giant armies and dozens of characters fighting on screen. The scenes are usually chaotic with lots of things happening at the same time, and in many cases it's just too hard to follow. But some of them work out well because they focus on specific narratives at a time, and use the rest of the battle as a backdrop. For example, in the battle of Helm's Deep, we spend a lot of time following the characters we know, witnessing things through their eyes, and it's okay if we don't see everything in the fight because we're focused on the parts that are important.



          In written text, it can be a little more challenging because you can't show simultaneous action well, so there's a big risk that you end up with a muddled and confusing mess. But it's not impossible.



          The Wheel of Time had an epic fate-of-the-world battle, "The Last Battle", where all the characters in the 14-book series got together in a last desperate struggle. In this fight, seventeen factions of light take on seven groups of shadow, and each force's story is told from the perspective of one or more characters associated with that group - the characters readers have followed along throughout the series. All the character stories and plot threads are given space for resolution, and the battle chapter clocks in at a massive 81,000 words, more than the entire first Harry Potter novel!



          You don't have nearly so many individuals and probably won't need 273 pages for your battle, but some of the things that worked for Robert Jordan may work for your case.



          It sounds like you have multiple point-of-view characters you've been building up through your story. Your battle is large enough, you can tell different parts of the battle through the lens of your major characters. Break it down into the individual narratives and you can relay it like a sequence of events taking place as part of the overall conflict. Similar to how you've broken it down in your question, you can start with a few groups and their skirmish, and then have the next group show up, and the next, and the next as things spiral into chaos.



          But also take care to keep the narrative scope small enough so that it doesn't become overwhelming. If Gang 1 manages to escape from Gang 2 for a while, Gang 2 can temporarily drop out of the narrative while Gang 1 encounters another gang until it's time for Gang 2 to resurface again.



          Just like in the movies, if you have too many characters on screen at the same time, then the individual actions of each get lost in the shuffle. If you can keep the focus on a few characters at any given time - say, a half-dozen or so - it'll be easier to follow along.






          share|improve this answer













          It really depends on how you write it, how important all the components are, and if you can construct a consistent narrative journeying through the story.



          Think back to all the big budget movies you've seen where there are giant armies and dozens of characters fighting on screen. The scenes are usually chaotic with lots of things happening at the same time, and in many cases it's just too hard to follow. But some of them work out well because they focus on specific narratives at a time, and use the rest of the battle as a backdrop. For example, in the battle of Helm's Deep, we spend a lot of time following the characters we know, witnessing things through their eyes, and it's okay if we don't see everything in the fight because we're focused on the parts that are important.



          In written text, it can be a little more challenging because you can't show simultaneous action well, so there's a big risk that you end up with a muddled and confusing mess. But it's not impossible.



          The Wheel of Time had an epic fate-of-the-world battle, "The Last Battle", where all the characters in the 14-book series got together in a last desperate struggle. In this fight, seventeen factions of light take on seven groups of shadow, and each force's story is told from the perspective of one or more characters associated with that group - the characters readers have followed along throughout the series. All the character stories and plot threads are given space for resolution, and the battle chapter clocks in at a massive 81,000 words, more than the entire first Harry Potter novel!



          You don't have nearly so many individuals and probably won't need 273 pages for your battle, but some of the things that worked for Robert Jordan may work for your case.



          It sounds like you have multiple point-of-view characters you've been building up through your story. Your battle is large enough, you can tell different parts of the battle through the lens of your major characters. Break it down into the individual narratives and you can relay it like a sequence of events taking place as part of the overall conflict. Similar to how you've broken it down in your question, you can start with a few groups and their skirmish, and then have the next group show up, and the next, and the next as things spiral into chaos.



          But also take care to keep the narrative scope small enough so that it doesn't become overwhelming. If Gang 1 manages to escape from Gang 2 for a while, Gang 2 can temporarily drop out of the narrative while Gang 1 encounters another gang until it's time for Gang 2 to resurface again.



          Just like in the movies, if you have too many characters on screen at the same time, then the individual actions of each get lost in the shuffle. If you can keep the focus on a few characters at any given time - say, a half-dozen or so - it'll be easier to follow along.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 6 hours ago









          TroyenTroyen

          1882 silver badges9 bronze badges




          1882 silver badges9 bronze badges


























              2














              Let's take a look at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in the Lord of the Rings:



              First, we have the Rohirrim. Among them are Theoden, Éowyn, Éomer and Merry. Then we have Minas Tirith, with its various forces, and with Gandalf and Pippin as focal point characters. There's the events inside the city with Denethor, and there's Imrahil outside. In the middle of the fray, Aragorn arrives with Legolas and Gimli. And of course there's Mordor's army. So, similar to your example, multiple characters and multiple storylines converging on one battle.



              What are we presented with? A confusing whirlwind, within which first one event than another is highlighted. We have no trouble following our multitude of main characters: each small scene is clear, and they are presented in sequence. But once we lose sight of a character, we do not know where within the tumult of battle he will reemerge. And the full account of the battle is explicitly not given:




              for it was a great battle and the full count of it no tale has told.
              J.R.R. Tolkien, Lord of the Rings Book V, chapter 6 - The Battle of the Pelennor Fields




              This is done deliberately. Tolkien took part in the Battle of the Somme, he knew that a battle is just too big, too confusing, you can't see all of it.



              What does this example mean for your situation?



              You have a lot going on. You want all of it to converge on one battle. But the fact is your "camera" can only focus on one mini-scene at a time. So you would need to break "what is happening" into small scenes you want to show, and show them in sequence. A lot can be happening off-screen while that one thing is going on on-screen.



              If you try to show everything all at the same time, this will indeed be too confusing. A narrative is sequential by its nature.



              But, you may well say, there is more than one thing happening all at the same time. True, but then you will need to figure out which one you show, and which one you only show the effects of.



              You will also need to consider pacing: if the situation is supposed to be tense, you don't want everything to stall because you're trying to tell too many things at the same time. You want every small scene to contribute to a larger shape of things.



              Figure out in what order things are happening, in what order you wish to present them (something might have happened, which your POV characters only find out later), how it all resolves itself. Then, write every small scene and let it play out: while this is the event you're highlighting, it is an island in the stormy sea, it is the one thing that's Happening. No distractions.



              So, to sum up, you can have a lot of storylines converge into one massive event. This can be very cathartic when well-written. But making that situation well-written - that is a significant challenge. It would require considerable mental storyboarding.






              share|improve this answer





























                2














                Let's take a look at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in the Lord of the Rings:



                First, we have the Rohirrim. Among them are Theoden, Éowyn, Éomer and Merry. Then we have Minas Tirith, with its various forces, and with Gandalf and Pippin as focal point characters. There's the events inside the city with Denethor, and there's Imrahil outside. In the middle of the fray, Aragorn arrives with Legolas and Gimli. And of course there's Mordor's army. So, similar to your example, multiple characters and multiple storylines converging on one battle.



                What are we presented with? A confusing whirlwind, within which first one event than another is highlighted. We have no trouble following our multitude of main characters: each small scene is clear, and they are presented in sequence. But once we lose sight of a character, we do not know where within the tumult of battle he will reemerge. And the full account of the battle is explicitly not given:




                for it was a great battle and the full count of it no tale has told.
                J.R.R. Tolkien, Lord of the Rings Book V, chapter 6 - The Battle of the Pelennor Fields




                This is done deliberately. Tolkien took part in the Battle of the Somme, he knew that a battle is just too big, too confusing, you can't see all of it.



                What does this example mean for your situation?



                You have a lot going on. You want all of it to converge on one battle. But the fact is your "camera" can only focus on one mini-scene at a time. So you would need to break "what is happening" into small scenes you want to show, and show them in sequence. A lot can be happening off-screen while that one thing is going on on-screen.



                If you try to show everything all at the same time, this will indeed be too confusing. A narrative is sequential by its nature.



                But, you may well say, there is more than one thing happening all at the same time. True, but then you will need to figure out which one you show, and which one you only show the effects of.



                You will also need to consider pacing: if the situation is supposed to be tense, you don't want everything to stall because you're trying to tell too many things at the same time. You want every small scene to contribute to a larger shape of things.



                Figure out in what order things are happening, in what order you wish to present them (something might have happened, which your POV characters only find out later), how it all resolves itself. Then, write every small scene and let it play out: while this is the event you're highlighting, it is an island in the stormy sea, it is the one thing that's Happening. No distractions.



                So, to sum up, you can have a lot of storylines converge into one massive event. This can be very cathartic when well-written. But making that situation well-written - that is a significant challenge. It would require considerable mental storyboarding.






                share|improve this answer



























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  Let's take a look at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in the Lord of the Rings:



                  First, we have the Rohirrim. Among them are Theoden, Éowyn, Éomer and Merry. Then we have Minas Tirith, with its various forces, and with Gandalf and Pippin as focal point characters. There's the events inside the city with Denethor, and there's Imrahil outside. In the middle of the fray, Aragorn arrives with Legolas and Gimli. And of course there's Mordor's army. So, similar to your example, multiple characters and multiple storylines converging on one battle.



                  What are we presented with? A confusing whirlwind, within which first one event than another is highlighted. We have no trouble following our multitude of main characters: each small scene is clear, and they are presented in sequence. But once we lose sight of a character, we do not know where within the tumult of battle he will reemerge. And the full account of the battle is explicitly not given:




                  for it was a great battle and the full count of it no tale has told.
                  J.R.R. Tolkien, Lord of the Rings Book V, chapter 6 - The Battle of the Pelennor Fields




                  This is done deliberately. Tolkien took part in the Battle of the Somme, he knew that a battle is just too big, too confusing, you can't see all of it.



                  What does this example mean for your situation?



                  You have a lot going on. You want all of it to converge on one battle. But the fact is your "camera" can only focus on one mini-scene at a time. So you would need to break "what is happening" into small scenes you want to show, and show them in sequence. A lot can be happening off-screen while that one thing is going on on-screen.



                  If you try to show everything all at the same time, this will indeed be too confusing. A narrative is sequential by its nature.



                  But, you may well say, there is more than one thing happening all at the same time. True, but then you will need to figure out which one you show, and which one you only show the effects of.



                  You will also need to consider pacing: if the situation is supposed to be tense, you don't want everything to stall because you're trying to tell too many things at the same time. You want every small scene to contribute to a larger shape of things.



                  Figure out in what order things are happening, in what order you wish to present them (something might have happened, which your POV characters only find out later), how it all resolves itself. Then, write every small scene and let it play out: while this is the event you're highlighting, it is an island in the stormy sea, it is the one thing that's Happening. No distractions.



                  So, to sum up, you can have a lot of storylines converge into one massive event. This can be very cathartic when well-written. But making that situation well-written - that is a significant challenge. It would require considerable mental storyboarding.






                  share|improve this answer













                  Let's take a look at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in the Lord of the Rings:



                  First, we have the Rohirrim. Among them are Theoden, Éowyn, Éomer and Merry. Then we have Minas Tirith, with its various forces, and with Gandalf and Pippin as focal point characters. There's the events inside the city with Denethor, and there's Imrahil outside. In the middle of the fray, Aragorn arrives with Legolas and Gimli. And of course there's Mordor's army. So, similar to your example, multiple characters and multiple storylines converging on one battle.



                  What are we presented with? A confusing whirlwind, within which first one event than another is highlighted. We have no trouble following our multitude of main characters: each small scene is clear, and they are presented in sequence. But once we lose sight of a character, we do not know where within the tumult of battle he will reemerge. And the full account of the battle is explicitly not given:




                  for it was a great battle and the full count of it no tale has told.
                  J.R.R. Tolkien, Lord of the Rings Book V, chapter 6 - The Battle of the Pelennor Fields




                  This is done deliberately. Tolkien took part in the Battle of the Somme, he knew that a battle is just too big, too confusing, you can't see all of it.



                  What does this example mean for your situation?



                  You have a lot going on. You want all of it to converge on one battle. But the fact is your "camera" can only focus on one mini-scene at a time. So you would need to break "what is happening" into small scenes you want to show, and show them in sequence. A lot can be happening off-screen while that one thing is going on on-screen.



                  If you try to show everything all at the same time, this will indeed be too confusing. A narrative is sequential by its nature.



                  But, you may well say, there is more than one thing happening all at the same time. True, but then you will need to figure out which one you show, and which one you only show the effects of.



                  You will also need to consider pacing: if the situation is supposed to be tense, you don't want everything to stall because you're trying to tell too many things at the same time. You want every small scene to contribute to a larger shape of things.



                  Figure out in what order things are happening, in what order you wish to present them (something might have happened, which your POV characters only find out later), how it all resolves itself. Then, write every small scene and let it play out: while this is the event you're highlighting, it is an island in the stormy sea, it is the one thing that's Happening. No distractions.



                  So, to sum up, you can have a lot of storylines converge into one massive event. This can be very cathartic when well-written. But making that situation well-written - that is a significant challenge. It would require considerable mental storyboarding.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 6 hours ago









                  GalastelGalastel

                  44.4k6 gold badges135 silver badges248 bronze badges




                  44.4k6 gold badges135 silver badges248 bronze badges






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded
















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Writing Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f47254%2fcan-a-fight-scene-component-wise-be-too-complex-and-complicated%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      19. јануар Садржај Догађаји Рођења Смрти Празници и дани сећања Види још Референце Мени за навигацијуу

                      Israel Cuprins Etimologie | Istorie | Geografie | Politică | Demografie | Educație | Economie | Cultură | Note explicative | Note bibliografice | Bibliografie | Legături externe | Meniu de navigaresite web oficialfacebooktweeterGoogle+Instagramcanal YouTubeInstagramtextmodificaremodificarewww.technion.ac.ilnew.huji.ac.ilwww.weizmann.ac.ilwww1.biu.ac.ilenglish.tau.ac.ilwww.haifa.ac.ilin.bgu.ac.ilwww.openu.ac.ilwww.ariel.ac.ilCIA FactbookHarta Israelului"Negotiating Jerusalem," Palestine–Israel JournalThe Schizoid Nature of Modern Hebrew: A Slavic Language in Search of a Semitic Past„Arabic in Israel: an official language and a cultural bridge”„Latest Population Statistics for Israel”„Israel Population”„Tables”„Report for Selected Countries and Subjects”Human Development Report 2016: Human Development for Everyone„Distribution of family income - Gini index”The World FactbookJerusalem Law„Israel”„Israel”„Zionist Leaders: David Ben-Gurion 1886–1973”„The status of Jerusalem”„Analysis: Kadima's big plans”„Israel's Hard-Learned Lessons”„The Legacy of Undefined Borders, Tel Aviv Notes No. 40, 5 iunie 2002”„Israel Journal: A Land Without Borders”„Population”„Israel closes decade with population of 7.5 million”Time Series-DataBank„Selected Statistics on Jerusalem Day 2007 (Hebrew)”Golan belongs to Syria, Druze protestGlobal Survey 2006: Middle East Progress Amid Global Gains in FreedomWHO: Life expectancy in Israel among highest in the worldInternational Monetary Fund, World Economic Outlook Database, April 2011: Nominal GDP list of countries. Data for the year 2010.„Israel's accession to the OECD”Popular Opinion„On the Move”Hosea 12:5„Walking the Bible Timeline”„Palestine: History”„Return to Zion”An invention called 'the Jewish people' – Haaretz – Israel NewsoriginalJewish and Non-Jewish Population of Palestine-Israel (1517–2004)ImmigrationJewishvirtuallibrary.orgChapter One: The Heralders of Zionism„The birth of modern Israel: A scrap of paper that changed history”„League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, 24 iulie 1922”The Population of Palestine Prior to 1948originalBackground Paper No. 47 (ST/DPI/SER.A/47)History: Foreign DominationTwo Hundred and Seventh Plenary Meeting„Israel (Labor Zionism)”Population, by Religion and Population GroupThe Suez CrisisAdolf EichmannJustice Ministry Reply to Amnesty International Report„The Interregnum”Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs – The Palestinian National Covenant- July 1968Research on terrorism: trends, achievements & failuresThe Routledge Atlas of the Arab–Israeli conflict: The Complete History of the Struggle and the Efforts to Resolve It"George Habash, Palestinian Terrorism Tactician, Dies at 82."„1973: Arab states attack Israeli forces”Agranat Commission„Has Israel Annexed East Jerusalem?”original„After 4 Years, Intifada Still Smolders”From the End of the Cold War to 2001originalThe Oslo Accords, 1993Israel-PLO Recognition – Exchange of Letters between PM Rabin and Chairman Arafat – Sept 9- 1993Foundation for Middle East PeaceSources of Population Growth: Total Israeli Population and Settler Population, 1991–2003original„Israel marks Rabin assassination”The Wye River Memorandumoriginal„West Bank barrier route disputed, Israeli missile kills 2”"Permanent Ceasefire to Be Based on Creation Of Buffer Zone Free of Armed Personnel Other than UN, Lebanese Forces"„Hezbollah kills 8 soldiers, kidnaps two in offensive on northern border”„Olmert confirms peace talks with Syria”„Battleground Gaza: Israeli ground forces invade the strip”„IDF begins Gaza troop withdrawal, hours after ending 3-week offensive”„THE LAND: Geography and Climate”„Area of districts, sub-districts, natural regions and lakes”„Israel - Geography”„Makhteshim Country”Israel and the Palestinian Territories„Makhtesh Ramon”„The Living Dead Sea”„Temperatures reach record high in Pakistan”„Climate Extremes In Israel”Israel in figures„Deuteronom”„JNF: 240 million trees planted since 1901”„Vegetation of Israel and Neighboring Countries”Environmental Law in Israel„Executive branch”„Israel's election process explained”„The Electoral System in Israel”„Constitution for Israel”„All 120 incoming Knesset members”„Statul ISRAEL”„The Judiciary: The Court System”„Israel's high court unique in region”„Israel and the International Criminal Court: A Legal Battlefield”„Localities and population, by population group, district, sub-district and natural region”„Israel: Districts, Major Cities, Urban Localities & Metropolitan Areas”„Israel-Egypt Relations: Background & Overview of Peace Treaty”„Solana to Haaretz: New Rules of War Needed for Age of Terror”„Israel's Announcement Regarding Settlements”„United Nations Security Council Resolution 497”„Security Council resolution 478 (1980) on the status of Jerusalem”„Arabs will ask U.N. to seek razing of Israeli wall”„Olmert: Willing to trade land for peace”„Mapping Peace between Syria and Israel”„Egypt: Israel must accept the land-for-peace formula”„Israel: Age structure from 2005 to 2015”„Global, regional, and national disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) for 306 diseases and injuries and healthy life expectancy (HALE) for 188 countries, 1990–2013: quantifying the epidemiological transition”10.1016/S0140-6736(15)61340-X„World Health Statistics 2014”„Life expectancy for Israeli men world's 4th highest”„Family Structure and Well-Being Across Israel's Diverse Population”„Fertility among Jewish and Muslim Women in Israel, by Level of Religiosity, 1979-2009”„Israel leaders in birth rate, but poverty major challenge”„Ethnic Groups”„Israel's population: Over 8.5 million”„Israel - Ethnic groups”„Jews, by country of origin and age”„Minority Communities in Israel: Background & Overview”„Israel”„Language in Israel”„Selected Data from the 2011 Social Survey on Mastery of the Hebrew Language and Usage of Languages”„Religions”„5 facts about Israeli Druze, a unique religious and ethnic group”„Israël”Israel Country Study Guide„Haredi city in Negev – blessing or curse?”„New town Harish harbors hopes of being more than another Pleasantville”„List of localities, in alphabetical order”„Muncitorii români, doriți în Israel”„Prietenia româno-israeliană la nevoie se cunoaște”„The Higher Education System in Israel”„Middle East”„Academic Ranking of World Universities 2016”„Israel”„Israel”„Jewish Nobel Prize Winners”„All Nobel Prizes in Literature”„All Nobel Peace Prizes”„All Prizes in Economic Sciences”„All Nobel Prizes in Chemistry”„List of Fields Medallists”„Sakharov Prize”„Țara care și-a sfidat "destinul" și se bate umăr la umăr cu Silicon Valley”„Apple's R&D center in Israel grew to about 800 employees”„Tim Cook: Apple's Herzliya R&D center second-largest in world”„Lecții de economie de la Israel”„Land use”Israel Investment and Business GuideA Country Study: IsraelCentral Bureau of StatisticsFlorin Diaconu, „Kadima: Flexibilitate și pragmatism, dar nici un compromis în chestiuni vitale", în Revista Institutului Diplomatic Român, anul I, numărul I, semestrul I, 2006, pp. 71-72Florin Diaconu, „Likud: Dreapta israeliană constant opusă retrocedării teritoriilor cureite prin luptă în 1967", în Revista Institutului Diplomatic Român, anul I, numărul I, semestrul I, 2006, pp. 73-74MassadaIsraelul a crescut in 50 de ani cât alte state intr-un mileniuIsrael Government PortalIsraelIsraelIsraelmmmmmXX451232cb118646298(data)4027808-634110000 0004 0372 0767n7900328503691455-bb46-37e3-91d2-cb064a35ffcc1003570400564274ge1294033523775214929302638955X146498911146498911

                      Кастелфранко ди Сопра Становништво Референце Спољашње везе Мени за навигацију43°37′18″ СГШ; 11°33′32″ ИГД / 43.62156° СГШ; 11.55885° ИГД / 43.62156; 11.5588543°37′18″ СГШ; 11°33′32″ ИГД / 43.62156° СГШ; 11.55885° ИГД / 43.62156; 11.558853179688„The GeoNames geographical database”„Istituto Nazionale di Statistica”проширитиууWorldCat156923403n850174324558639-1cb14643287r(подаци)