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How many photons are emitted by a lightning strike?

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7

$begingroup$

As the title suggests, I'm curious to know, approximately how many photons are emitted in a single lightning strike?

photons lightning nature

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edited 5 hours ago

Aaron Stevens

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$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Photons aren't "in" a lightning strike, they're produced by the lightning strike. The things that are "in" the lightning are electrons and atomic ions.
  $endgroup$
  – Emilio Pisanty
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Yes, that's a very good point, thanks.
  $endgroup$
  – This is the Dave I know
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Related: doi.org/10.1029/JC082i031p04967. PS sorry that it leads to a paywall but there is no legal way of displaying the document publically.
  $endgroup$
  – user79161
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  That's very interesting, thanks user79161
  $endgroup$
  – This is the Dave I know
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Counting photons runs into trouble at the very low-frequency end of the spectrum. Any reasonable attempt to count the softest photons finds that there are essentially an infinite number of extremely low-energy quanta emitted in any electrodynamic process.
  $endgroup$
  – Buzz
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

7

$begingroup$

As the title suggests, I'm curious to know, approximately how many photons are emitted in a single lightning strike?

photons lightning nature

share|cite|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Aaron Stevens

17.1k44 gold badges2828 silver badges6464 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

This is the Dave I knowThis is the Dave I know

3622 bronze badges

New contributor

This is the Dave I know is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Photons aren't "in" a lightning strike, they're produced by the lightning strike. The things that are "in" the lightning are electrons and atomic ions.
  $endgroup$
  – Emilio Pisanty
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Yes, that's a very good point, thanks.
  $endgroup$
  – This is the Dave I know
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Related: doi.org/10.1029/JC082i031p04967. PS sorry that it leads to a paywall but there is no legal way of displaying the document publically.
  $endgroup$
  – user79161
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  That's very interesting, thanks user79161
  $endgroup$
  – This is the Dave I know
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Counting photons runs into trouble at the very low-frequency end of the spectrum. Any reasonable attempt to count the softest photons finds that there are essentially an infinite number of extremely low-energy quanta emitted in any electrodynamic process.
  $endgroup$
  – Buzz
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

As the title suggests, I'm curious to know, approximately how many photons are emitted in a single lightning strike?

photons lightning nature

share|cite|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Aaron Stevens

17.1k44 gold badges2828 silver badges6464 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

This is the Dave I knowThis is the Dave I know

3622 bronze badges

New contributor

This is the Dave I know is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

share|cite|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Aaron Stevens

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asked 8 hours ago

This is the Dave I knowThis is the Dave I know

3622 bronze badges

New contributor

This is the Dave I know is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|cite|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Aaron Stevens

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asked 8 hours ago

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edited 5 hours ago

Aaron Stevens

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edited 5 hours ago

Aaron Stevens

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asked 8 hours ago

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2 Answers
2

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3

$begingroup$

From this website, we see that a lightining bolt is "an inch wide and five miles long", and at "50,000° F". So in useful units, aproximately 3 cm diameter, 8 kilometer long, 28000 K hot.

If we consider that the heat is mostly due to black body radiation (for a perfect black body with an emissivity of $epsilon = 1$), then the power will be given by the Stef-Boltzmann law:

$P = A epsilon sigma T^4$

The area, $A$ of the lightning bolt (a cylinder, of course) is given by

$A= 2 pitimes(3 text cm)times 8 text km sim 1500 text m^2$

And so,

$5.2 times 10^13 $ Watts of power.

Lets say, it lasts 10 miliseconds, so its around $sim 5 times10^11$ J.

Now to calculate it the amount of photons properly, you would have to consider the spectrum of the black body radiation, and convert the energy density to number of photons using Planks law. I will just use the rule of thumb that "1 Watt of monochromatic visible light is approx $10^18$ photons per second".

And so, it would be around:

$sim 10^29$ photons.

share|cite|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

GyromagneticGyromagnetic

53422 silver badges1010 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Note that your estimate of the energy in a lightning strike is different from the partially-sourced estimate in the answer by Thomas Fritsch. The difference is nearly three orders of magnitude.
  $endgroup$
  – rob♦
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

1

$begingroup$

According to Could We Harness Lightning as an Energy Source?:

An average bolt of lightning, striking from cloud to ground, contains roughly one billion ($1,000,000,000$) joules of energy.

According to Visible light:

Red photons of light carry about $1.8$ electron volts (eV) of energy, while each blue photon transmits about $3.1$ eV.

So let's take an average photon energy of $2.5 text eV$.

Assuming all the energy of the lightning is converted to visible light,
we can calculate the number of photons.

$$ N = frac10^9 text Joule2.5 text eV
= frac10^9 text Joule2.5 cdot 1.6 cdot 10^-19 text Joule
= 2.5 cdot 10^27$$

share|cite|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Thomas FritschThomas Fritsch

3,26311 gold badge1414 silver badges2424 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I have seen lightning strikes where this is not even an approximate figure. An approximate figure is what was asked for. And to get an average figure,you would have to accurately measure a hell of a lot of lightning strikes,then average them. I doubt whether this has been done.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Walsby
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @MichaelWalsby I think you are taking things way too seriously here
  $endgroup$
  – Aaron Stevens
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  All of the energy is definitely not converted to light.
  $endgroup$
  – G. Smith
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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3

$begingroup$

From this website, we see that a lightining bolt is "an inch wide and five miles long", and at "50,000° F". So in useful units, aproximately 3 cm diameter, 8 kilometer long, 28000 K hot.

If we consider that the heat is mostly due to black body radiation (for a perfect black body with an emissivity of $epsilon = 1$), then the power will be given by the Stef-Boltzmann law:

$P = A epsilon sigma T^4$

The area, $A$ of the lightning bolt (a cylinder, of course) is given by

$A= 2 pitimes(3 text cm)times 8 text km sim 1500 text m^2$

And so,

$5.2 times 10^13 $ Watts of power.

Lets say, it lasts 10 miliseconds, so its around $sim 5 times10^11$ J.

Now to calculate it the amount of photons properly, you would have to consider the spectrum of the black body radiation, and convert the energy density to number of photons using Planks law. I will just use the rule of thumb that "1 Watt of monochromatic visible light is approx $10^18$ photons per second".

And so, it would be around:

$sim 10^29$ photons.

share|cite|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

GyromagneticGyromagnetic

53422 silver badges1010 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Note that your estimate of the energy in a lightning strike is different from the partially-sourced estimate in the answer by Thomas Fritsch. The difference is nearly three orders of magnitude.
  $endgroup$
  – rob♦
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

$begingroup$

From this website, we see that a lightining bolt is "an inch wide and five miles long", and at "50,000° F". So in useful units, aproximately 3 cm diameter, 8 kilometer long, 28000 K hot.

If we consider that the heat is mostly due to black body radiation (for a perfect black body with an emissivity of $epsilon = 1$), then the power will be given by the Stef-Boltzmann law:

$P = A epsilon sigma T^4$

The area, $A$ of the lightning bolt (a cylinder, of course) is given by

$A= 2 pitimes(3 text cm)times 8 text km sim 1500 text m^2$

And so,

$5.2 times 10^13 $ Watts of power.

Lets say, it lasts 10 miliseconds, so its around $sim 5 times10^11$ J.

Now to calculate it the amount of photons properly, you would have to consider the spectrum of the black body radiation, and convert the energy density to number of photons using Planks law. I will just use the rule of thumb that "1 Watt of monochromatic visible light is approx $10^18$ photons per second".

And so, it would be around:

$sim 10^29$ photons.

share|cite|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

GyromagneticGyromagnetic

53422 silver badges1010 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Note that your estimate of the energy in a lightning strike is different from the partially-sourced estimate in the answer by Thomas Fritsch. The difference is nearly three orders of magnitude.
  $endgroup$
  – rob♦
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

From this website, we see that a lightining bolt is "an inch wide and five miles long", and at "50,000° F". So in useful units, aproximately 3 cm diameter, 8 kilometer long, 28000 K hot.

If we consider that the heat is mostly due to black body radiation (for a perfect black body with an emissivity of $epsilon = 1$), then the power will be given by the Stef-Boltzmann law:

$P = A epsilon sigma T^4$

The area, $A$ of the lightning bolt (a cylinder, of course) is given by

$A= 2 pitimes(3 text cm)times 8 text km sim 1500 text m^2$

And so,

$5.2 times 10^13 $ Watts of power.

Lets say, it lasts 10 miliseconds, so its around $sim 5 times10^11$ J.

Now to calculate it the amount of photons properly, you would have to consider the spectrum of the black body radiation, and convert the energy density to number of photons using Planks law. I will just use the rule of thumb that "1 Watt of monochromatic visible light is approx $10^18$ photons per second".

And so, it would be around:

$sim 10^29$ photons.

share|cite|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

GyromagneticGyromagnetic

53422 silver badges1010 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|cite|improve this answer

answered 6 hours ago

GyromagneticGyromagnetic

53422 silver badges1010 bronze badges

answered 6 hours ago

GyromagneticGyromagnetic

53422 silver badges1010 bronze badges

answered 6 hours ago

GyromagneticGyromagnetic

53422 silver badges1010 bronze badges

1

$begingroup$

According to Could We Harness Lightning as an Energy Source?:

An average bolt of lightning, striking from cloud to ground, contains roughly one billion ($1,000,000,000$) joules of energy.

According to Visible light:

Red photons of light carry about $1.8$ electron volts (eV) of energy, while each blue photon transmits about $3.1$ eV.

So let's take an average photon energy of $2.5 text eV$.

Assuming all the energy of the lightning is converted to visible light,
we can calculate the number of photons.

$$ N = frac10^9 text Joule2.5 text eV
= frac10^9 text Joule2.5 cdot 1.6 cdot 10^-19 text Joule
= 2.5 cdot 10^27$$

share|cite|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Thomas FritschThomas Fritsch

3,26311 gold badge1414 silver badges2424 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I have seen lightning strikes where this is not even an approximate figure. An approximate figure is what was asked for. And to get an average figure,you would have to accurately measure a hell of a lot of lightning strikes,then average them. I doubt whether this has been done.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Walsby
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @MichaelWalsby I think you are taking things way too seriously here
  $endgroup$
  – Aaron Stevens
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  All of the energy is definitely not converted to light.
  $endgroup$
  – G. Smith
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

1

$begingroup$

According to Could We Harness Lightning as an Energy Source?:

An average bolt of lightning, striking from cloud to ground, contains roughly one billion ($1,000,000,000$) joules of energy.

According to Visible light:

Red photons of light carry about $1.8$ electron volts (eV) of energy, while each blue photon transmits about $3.1$ eV.

So let's take an average photon energy of $2.5 text eV$.

Assuming all the energy of the lightning is converted to visible light,
we can calculate the number of photons.

$$ N = frac10^9 text Joule2.5 text eV
= frac10^9 text Joule2.5 cdot 1.6 cdot 10^-19 text Joule
= 2.5 cdot 10^27$$

share|cite|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Thomas FritschThomas Fritsch

3,26311 gold badge1414 silver badges2424 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I have seen lightning strikes where this is not even an approximate figure. An approximate figure is what was asked for. And to get an average figure,you would have to accurately measure a hell of a lot of lightning strikes,then average them. I doubt whether this has been done.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Walsby
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @MichaelWalsby I think you are taking things way too seriously here
  $endgroup$
  – Aaron Stevens
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  All of the energy is definitely not converted to light.
  $endgroup$
  – G. Smith
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

According to Could We Harness Lightning as an Energy Source?:

An average bolt of lightning, striking from cloud to ground, contains roughly one billion ($1,000,000,000$) joules of energy.

According to Visible light:

Red photons of light carry about $1.8$ electron volts (eV) of energy, while each blue photon transmits about $3.1$ eV.

So let's take an average photon energy of $2.5 text eV$.

Assuming all the energy of the lightning is converted to visible light,
we can calculate the number of photons.

$$ N = frac10^9 text Joule2.5 text eV
= frac10^9 text Joule2.5 cdot 1.6 cdot 10^-19 text Joule
= 2.5 cdot 10^27$$

share|cite|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Thomas FritschThomas Fritsch

3,26311 gold badge1414 silver badges2424 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|cite|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Thomas FritschThomas Fritsch

3,26311 gold badge1414 silver badges2424 bronze badges

answered 6 hours ago

Thomas FritschThomas Fritsch

3,26311 gold badge1414 silver badges2424 bronze badges

answered 6 hours ago

Thomas FritschThomas Fritsch

3,26311 gold badge1414 silver badges2424 bronze badges